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hs2 - what a disaster

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Re: hs2 - what a disaster

Postby supporttheunderdog » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:11 am

Lordo wrote:
supporttheunderdog wrote:Well you have to start it somewhere and they have found the space at Euston by buying up lots of properties on the west side of the station and clearing them. Euston is after all currently the NW gateway station and reasonably well connected to the underground, better connected when Euston square on the Met / H&C / Circle line will have direct access.

the position remains that with current line usage there are capacity problems in particular on commuter trains at peak times. Get the long distance expresses separate and you possibly more than double the number of commuter trains.

I know that line: there is not the space to do it by adding tracks alone side and that would be just as costly in land costs as building the new line, and more disruptive.

i can clearly see you are clueles about project management. let me educate you.

first you need to understad the problem fully.
then you work out the possible solutions
then analise each one to see the benefits and dis-benefits.
decide which solution you will go with and justify it by making sure it is value for money
then begin the project.


this project was doomed before it started.

similar to brexit really. same people same shit. they have spend billions and we still don't know if we are going or staying. done properly firat we woul dhave the decision finalised. then prepare for it and then leave.

when you have people who snort drugs making decision for you, you normally end up in a mess and a half but they are always alright becasue when they leave the palms that were greased will always look after you after you leave office


But the project has been analysed. It is how the conclusions were reached that expansion of existing railways and/or upgrading them was not a viable option.
Expansion, building more tracks to one side or either side, or wherever, would still require the massive amounts of land purchase, then massive amounts of civil engineering, and that would likely require far more costly purchase od property in towns and cities that the existing railway passes through...eg Look at Watford and the long embankment between Bushy and Watford Junction, then the cutting north to the Watford Tunnels and out to Kings Langley, and where the work at Watford junction station itself would be highly disruptive, probably involving many periods where the track would have to be completely closed for possibly long periods.

Upgrade? Been done. Very little scope to get more trains on the line, quart into pint pot.

The problem is not the nimby politics, indeed politics full stop.

Build the line, it gives you automatically up to 18 trains an hour on the new line, and by taking out the large average speed differential between express trains and stopping trains which causes large gaps in the service you can put a lot more stopping trains in, not just on tbe Euston line, but also the St Pancras and Kings cross lines which will have some faster Non stop trains transferred. It’s a win-win.
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Re: hs2 - what a disaster

Postby Lordo » Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:05 pm

supporttheunderdog wrote:
Lordo wrote:
supporttheunderdog wrote:Well you have to start it somewhere and they have found the space at Euston by buying up lots of properties on the west side of the station and clearing them. Euston is after all currently the NW gateway station and reasonably well connected to the underground, better connected when Euston square on the Met / H&C / Circle line will have direct access.

the position remains that with current line usage there are capacity problems in particular on commuter trains at peak times. Get the long distance expresses separate and you possibly more than double the number of commuter trains.

I know that line: there is not the space to do it by adding tracks alone side and that would be just as costly in land costs as building the new line, and more disruptive.

i can clearly see you are clueles about project management. let me educate you.

first you need to understad the problem fully.
then you work out the possible solutions
then analise each one to see the benefits and dis-benefits.
decide which solution you will go with and justify it by making sure it is value for money
then begin the project.


this project was doomed before it started.

similar to brexit really. same people same shit. they have spend billions and we still don't know if we are going or staying. done properly firat we woul dhave the decision finalised. then prepare for it and then leave.

when you have people who snort drugs making decision for you, you normally end up in a mess and a half but they are always alright becasue when they leave the palms that were greased will always look after you after you leave office


But the project has been analysed. It is how the conclusions were reached that expansion of existing railways and/or upgrading them was not a viable option.
Expansion, building more tracks to one side or either side, or wherever, would still require the massive amounts of land purchase, then massive amounts of civil engineering, and that would likely require far more costly purchase od property in towns and cities that the existing railway passes through...eg Look at Watford and the long embankment between Bushy and Watford Junction, then the cutting north to the Watford Tunnels and out to Kings Langley, and where the work at Watford junction station itself would be highly disruptive, probably involving many periods where the track would have to be completely closed for possibly long periods.

Upgrade? Been done. Very little scope to get more trains on the line, quart into pint pot.

The problem is not the nimby politics, indeed politics full stop.

Build the line, it gives you automatically up to 18 trains an hour on the new line, and by taking out the large average speed differential between express trains and stopping trains which causes large gaps in the service you can put a lot more stopping trains in, not just on tbe Euston line, but also the St Pancras and Kings cross lines which will have some faster Non stop trains transferred. It’s a win-win.

don't be silly man, this project has not been started using any project managment principle what so ever. how do we know that? the job of a project manager is to make sure the project is value for money at all times. if at any time it is forcast that this project hhas no business case it must be stoped. the fact that they anounced that they were running a study to look at the business case shows they are running like a headless chicken never mind running a project. As to expaning the rail system costing more than building a brand new line is laughable never mind the damage it is going to cross.

I still maintain you have never managed a project in your life ever.
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Re: hs2 - what a disaster

Postby supporttheunderdog » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:28 pm

plainly you fail to understand the issues with trying to upgrade and/or expand existing lines.

If you have to expand then you still have to do the land purchase and given how much our railways run close to urban developments and through towns (which urban development Victorianrailway building encouraged) then that means buying lots of residential and/or commercial properties in those places.

Then you have to look at the effects of the civil engineering... for practical reasons you may not be able to put new tracks either side or to one side consistently so you have the major issues of the new lines crossing the old.....then you have to look at station rebuilding, along with all the bridges and tunnels - and all the time you have to keep the trains running.

Simply upgrading the WCML took ten years and involved regular closures on parts of the route with replacement busses or diversions. I found this with the ECML when at times the IC 125s were diverted off the main line to go further east through eg Lincoln, adding two to three hours to what should have been a four hour trip, in particular at weekends.
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Re: hs2 - what a disaster

Postby cyprusgrump » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:35 pm

supporttheunderdog wrote:plainly you fail to understand the issues with trying to upgrade and/or expand existing lines.

If you have to expand then you still have to do the land purchase and given how much our railways run close to urban developments and through towns (which urban development Victorianrailway building encouraged) then that means buying lots of residential and/or commercial properties in those places.

Then you have to look at the effects of the civil engineering... for practical reasons you may not be able to put new tracks either side or to one side consistently so you have the major issues of the new lines crossing the old.....then you have to look at station rebuilding, along with all the bridges and tunnels - and all the time you have to keep the trains running.

Simply upgrading the WCML took ten years and involved regular closures on parts of the route with replacement busses or diversions. I found this with the ECML when at times the IC 125s were diverted off the main line to go further east through eg Lincoln, adding two to three hours to what should have been a four hour trip, in particular at weekends.



I fear you are wasting your time discussing this with Bore-Dough STUD... He seems clueless about everything and seems to glean all of his 'knowledge' from the Groaniad... :wink:

He claimed earlier in this thread that BR built the railway lines... :roll: He probably thinks that the NHS built all the hospitals too! :lol:
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Re: hs2 - what a disaster

Postby Lordo » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:59 pm

i bet either of you have never run a project in your life and here you are commenting on things you do not understand. you don't even understand the most basic things about project management.

enjoy your ignorances you hear.
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Re: hs2 - what a disaster

Postby cyprusgrump » Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:07 pm

Lordo wrote:i bet either of you have never run a project in your life and here you are commenting on things you do not understand. you don't even understand the most basic things about project management.

enjoy your ignorances you hear.



Quite large ones actually, with international companies you have probably even heard of. :wink:

But of course, you know best Bore-Dough... :roll:

Tell us, in what year did BR build all the railway lines...? :lol:
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Re: hs2 - what a disaster

Postby Lordo » Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:01 pm

cyprusgrump wrote:
Lordo wrote:i bet either of you have never run a project in your life and here you are commenting on things you do not understand. you don't even understand the most basic things about project management.

enjoy your ignorances you hear.



Quite large ones actually, with international companies you have probably even heard of. :wink:

But of course, you know best Bore-Dough... :roll:

Tell us, in what year did BR build all the railway lines...? :lol:

how interesting, imagine i am new to this game, just run through a few things people do in a project management too see how familiar you are with project management. Nothing too complicated just the basic steps. and i don't mean google it, in your own words. take an imagenary project that oes not exist on the net and give us the steps.
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Re: hs2 - what a disaster

Postby cyprusgrump » Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:00 pm

Lordo wrote:
cyprusgrump wrote:
Lordo wrote:i bet either of you have never run a project in your life and here you are commenting on things you do not understand. you don't even understand the most basic things about project management.

enjoy your ignorances you hear.



Quite large ones actually, with international companies you have probably even heard of. :wink:

But of course, you know best Bore-Dough... :roll:

Tell us, in what year did BR build all the railway lines...? :lol:

how interesting, imagine i am new to this game, just run through a few things people do in a project management too see how familiar you are with project management. Nothing too complicated just the basic steps. and i don't mean google it, in your own words. take an imagenary project that oes not exist on the net and give us the steps.



What, waste my time typing in details so you can call me a cunt when you spot some detail you disagree with...? :roll:

Do me a favour Bore-Dough...
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Re: hs2 - what a disaster

Postby Lordo » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:31 pm

cyprusgrump wrote:
Lordo wrote:
cyprusgrump wrote:
Lordo wrote:i bet either of you have never run a project in your life and here you are commenting on things you do not understand. you don't even understand the most basic things about project management.

enjoy your ignorances you hear.



Quite large ones actually, with international companies you have probably even heard of. :wink:

But of course, you know best Bore-Dough... :roll:

Tell us, in what year did BR build all the railway lines...? :lol:

how interesting, imagine i am new to this game, just run through a few things people do in a project management too see how familiar you are with project management. Nothing too complicated just the basic steps. and i don't mean google it, in your own words. take an imagenary project that oes not exist on the net and give us the steps.



What, waste my time typing in details so you can call me a cunt when you spot some detail you disagree with...? :roll:

Do me a favour Bore-Dough...

i don't need to call anything, you know exactly what you are.
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Re: hs2 - what a disaster

Postby cyprusgrump » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:48 pm

Lordo wrote:
cyprusgrump wrote:
Lordo wrote:
cyprusgrump wrote:
Lordo wrote:i bet either of you have never run a project in your life and here you are commenting on things you do not understand. you don't even understand the most basic things about project management.

enjoy your ignorances you hear.



Quite large ones actually, with international companies you have probably even heard of. :wink:

But of course, you know best Bore-Dough... :roll:

Tell us, in what year did BR build all the railway lines...? :lol:

how interesting, imagine i am new to this game, just run through a few things people do in a project management too see how familiar you are with project management. Nothing too complicated just the basic steps. and i don't mean google it, in your own words. take an imagenary project that oes not exist on the net and give us the steps.



What, waste my time typing in details so you can call me a cunt when you spot some detail you disagree with...? :roll:

Do me a favour Bore-Dough...

i don't need to call anything, you know exactly what you are.



The bloke that kicked your arse on the forum...?

The bloke that knows that BR didn't build the railway infrastructure...?

The bloke that was using and selling Pertmaster software in the 80s...?

Or the bloke that was so good at project management he was able to give up work and retire to Cyprus aged 42...?

You decide...? :wink:
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