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The risks to children of British public schools.

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Re: The risks to children of British public schools.

Postby cyprusgrump » Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:21 pm

erolz66 wrote:Anyway to get back on topic.

The risk to a child of sexual abuse is higher in classic British public school style schools than state ones is clear and plain from the actual evidence.

This is not about 'selection' which is an issue in its own right that crosses public / private divide. As shown by the state Perth Modern school having the 2nd highest 'elitist' admission policy in Australia.

This is about the structural brutality that is embedded into classic British public school system. It is not just about boarding, though that is a part of it. It is about subjecting our children to 1800 and 1900 notions on education unnecessarily and the unnecessary damage that does. We do not need to do this to our children any more. It is time for real change.


I think the parents should decide what schools they get to send their children to, not the government... :wink:
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Re: The risks to children of British public schools.

Postby erolz66 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:47 pm

cyprusgrump wrote:
erolz66 wrote:Anyway to get back on topic.

The risk to a child of sexual abuse is higher in classic British public school style schools than state ones is clear and plain from the actual evidence.

This is not about 'selection' which is an issue in its own right that crosses public / private divide. As shown by the state Perth Modern school having the 2nd highest 'elitist' admission policy in Australia.

This is about the structural brutality that is embedded into classic British public school system. It is not just about boarding, though that is a part of it. It is about subjecting our children to 1800 and 1900 notions on education unnecessarily and the unnecessary damage that does. We do not need to do this to our children any more. It is time for real change.


I think the parents should decide what schools they get to send their children to, not the government... :wink:


You do not need classic british public school type schools for that. You are talking about selection not public schools pe se. There was a time when parents got to chose if their children went to school at all but we have progressed passed that stage in the UK ;)
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Re: The risks to children of British public schools.

Postby cyprusgrump » Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:00 pm

erolz66 wrote:
cyprusgrump wrote:
erolz66 wrote:Anyway to get back on topic.

The risk to a child of sexual abuse is higher in classic British public school style schools than state ones is clear and plain from the actual evidence.

This is not about 'selection' which is an issue in its own right that crosses public / private divide. As shown by the state Perth Modern school having the 2nd highest 'elitist' admission policy in Australia.

This is about the structural brutality that is embedded into classic British public school system. It is not just about boarding, though that is a part of it. It is about subjecting our children to 1800 and 1900 notions on education unnecessarily and the unnecessary damage that does. We do not need to do this to our children any more. It is time for real change.


I think the parents should decide what schools they get to send their children to, not the government... :wink:


You do not need classic british public school type schools for that. You are talking about selection not public schools pe se. There was a time when parents got to chose if their children went to school at all but we have progressed passed that stage in the UK ;)


Except state schools are shite and parents want to be able to choose a better school for their children...

...as I said before in this thread, if state education improved to the quality of private schools the need for them would disappear.

But socialists would prefer that all schools are dumbed-down to the same level wouldn't they...? :wink:
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Re: The risks to children of British public schools.

Postby erolz66 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:05 pm

cyprusgrump wrote: Except state schools are shite and parents want to be able to choose a better school for their children...

...as I said before in this thread, if state education improved to the quality of private schools the need for them would disappear.

But socialists would prefer that all schools are dumbed-down to the same level wouldn't they...? :wink:


It is just nonsense to claim, in your usual binary terms, that state schools are shit. Just take a look at a school like Perth Modern. People send their kids to fee paying schools when they are unable to get them in to schools like Perth Modern, because the kids do not have enough talent or the parents enough status. Some parents send their kids to fee paying schools knowing that the quality of education will be lower but are happy to take the 'compensation' of bought advantage in the labour market such old school networks provide and that the likes of Paphitis are so enamoured of. I would prefer a world where people are judged on their own abilities and qualities, generally and in terms of employment specifically and not just what school tie their parents bought for them. Are you really that doubtful of your own children's abilities and qualities that you need to buy them advantage in a labour market place ? A bit of 'old school' Cypriot 'rusfeti' then. That is what you are seeking to 'protect' as far as I can see.
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Re: The risks to children of British public schools.

Postby B25 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:47 pm

Elroz, your envy and jealousy of people better off then you is disgusting. I guess for a typical socialist this is normal, your 'why should someone have better then me' attitude stinks.
Shame on you.
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Re: The risks to children of British public schools.

Postby erolz66 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:03 pm

B25 wrote:Elroz, your envy and jealousy of people better off then you is disgusting. I guess for a typical socialist this is normal, your 'why should someone have better then me' attitude stinks.
Shame on you.


round and round we go. from page 3 in this thread.

I can assure you that I do not hate or envy but have nothing but love and pride for my niece , former pupil of Dame Alice School in Bedford the sister school to the boys school I attended, law graduate of Oxford University (really Oxford university, not some university that happens to be in or near Oxford), who then passed the Bar exams and is now working in chambers as a barrister.


There is more to life than a never ending relentless attempt to personally accumulate more and more money. I do not envy people so driven, I pity them. As I pity those carrying around the burden of hatred with them day in and day out of their lives, to the degree as you often appear here to be doing.
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Re: The risks to children of British public schools.

Postby Londonrake » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:15 pm

B25 wrote:Elroz, your envy and jealousy of people better off then you is disgusting. I guess for a typical socialist this is normal, your 'why should someone have better then me' attitude stinks.
Shame on you.


They’re not better off than him though. He’s an ex-Public school boy. It became clear quite some time ago that this isn’t a political issue for him. It’s personal. In essence, pursuance of a grudge.
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Re: The risks to children of British public schools.

Postby erolz66 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:55 pm

Londonrake wrote:
B25 wrote:Elroz, your envy and jealousy of people better off then you is disgusting. I guess for a typical socialist this is normal, your 'why should someone have better then me' attitude stinks.
Shame on you.


They’re not better off than him though. He’s an ex-Public school boy. It became clear quite some time ago that this isn’t a political issue for him. It’s personal. In essence, pursuance of a grudge.


Yeah because actual experience is the worst way to uncover the failings of a system I guess. That's trip adviser fucked then. If only I had not gone to public school then no doubt you would respect my views, my right to hold them, my backing them up with actual evidence and the like all the more.

Still nothing from you on the substance of this topic then but just time to attack the messenger in order to ignore the message. I do have regard for consistency.
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Re: The risks to children of British public schools.

Postby Londonrake » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:11 pm

erolz66 wrote:
Londonrake wrote:
B25 wrote:Elroz, your envy and jealousy of people better off then you is disgusting. I guess for a typical socialist this is normal, your 'why should someone have better then me' attitude stinks.
Shame on you.


They’re not better off than him though. He’s an ex-Public school boy. It became clear quite some time ago that this isn’t a political issue for him. It’s personal. In essence, pursuance of a grudge.


Yeah because actual experience is the worst way to uncover the failings of a system I guess. That's trip adviser fucked then. If only I had not gone to public school then no doubt you would respect my views, my right to hold them, my backing them up with actual evidence and the like all the more.

Still nothing from you on the substance of this topic then but just time to attack the messenger in order to ignore the message. I do have regard for consistency.


Well, IIRC it started out in another thread as a debate (interesting but as always "animated" :lol: ) on Labour's proposals for the public school sector. Then, with your revelations about the bad experiences you had and the psychological damage done, it morphed into something which to me seemed entirely different.

But, come on, you clearly couldn't give a Tinker's cuss about both CG's and my kid's positive views and outcomes. It's a personal grudge thing.
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Re: The risks to children of British public schools.

Postby erolz66 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:02 pm

Londonrake wrote:Well, IIRC it started out in another thread as a debate (interesting but as always "animated" :lol: ) on Labour's proposals for the public school sector. Then, with your revelations about the bad experiences you had and the psychological damage done, it morphed into something which to me seemed entirely different.

But, come on, you clearly couldn't give a Tinker's cuss about both CG's and my kid's positive views and outcomes. It's a personal grudge thing.


In the other thread I explained clearly why I support such schools no longer getting subsidies from the exchequer to build things like swimming pools when they already have facilities far in excess of what state schools have. I explained why I also supported the idea of incorporating such schools in to the state system, namely that of not exposing anyone's children to the unnecessary increased risk of harm that such schools cause. I created this thread in response to the constant shouts on the other of 'prove it' and 'you can not prove it' and the like. 9 out 10 of the top Australian 'public' schools, as listed by Paphitis, have histories of sexual abuse of children at those schools with some like Geelong having multiple instances of serious sexual assaults over decades. 1 out of 10 of the top state schools in Australia by exam results has any history of sexual abuse and that was a consenting relationship between a female pupil and an older teacher. As I said before I presented this evidence I did so

in the knowledge and expectation that you Londonrake in all probability will not judge that evidence with an open mind, will not even attempt to do so. With the expectation that you almost certainly will however use the presentation of such evidence to try and denigrate me as an individual and person as a result


Have you said anything about the shocking levels of sexual abuse occurring in public schools ? Was there even a murmur from you when Paphitis tried to claim that convicted and jailed serious abuser of children in these schools had NOT ever been tried, not ever been judged, not ever been jailed and that it was just all made up by kids who probably had been thrown out of the schools for drug taking. No not a peep out of you on any of that. But still plenty of time time to 'pop in' and try and denigrate my character as a person. So predictable.

As for the positive experience of your daughter I again ask what part of 'on statistical average' was ambiguous or unclear ? I will ask again because the last time you put up this straw man argument I asked and you just ignored the question. Only to ask it again now. Have I ever said ALL children that attend such schools will have a bad experience ? Be damaged by that experience ? No I have not. My personal negative experience is no more indicative of the average than your daughters positive one. However the hard data is just that, hard data and it does speak to the average. This you ignore because you do not like 'where it leads', so you seek to cast aspersions on me as a person, which is exactly what I predicted you would do.
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