The Best Cyprus Community

Skip to content


Quest to find the truth-Frustration

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby rolo » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:19 pm

error
rolo
Member
Member
 
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:15 pm

Postby Pyrpolizer » Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:23 pm

rolo wrote: Natty



Ok you’re confused by the whole issue, i'll outline the main points as I understand them.



1) the gcs have been here for some 3.5 millennia. No argument. It is their ancestral homeland.
2) The tcs have been here since 16th century.
3) Cyprus has always been under the rule of some empire or other.
4) Gc fought or Enosis in 1955. understandable enough, only problem was the tc situation.
5) Tc did not want to live under Athens – so we had an impasse.
6) British invite Tcs to join police and fight Eoka to prevent enosis.
7) Turkey did not want to see the expansion of Greece to within 40 miles of Turkey’s southern sea ports.
The three big players Britain, Greece Turkey compromise and agree 1960 constitution with Guarantor Powers to all three.
9) The gcs were in no position to refuse, so they agreed.
10) Independence official in 1960 with GC President (Makarios) tc Vice President (Kucuk) with gc majority parliamentary deputies, and with minority tcs having veto power over any new laws.


None of the above is in dispute. What then happened is.

Some elements of gc still pressed for Enosis, tcs in return wanted partition. Most rural Cypriots just wanted to milk their goats and harvest their lands, but the power crazed town boys wanted more.


Well with propaganda on both sides it all really kicked off at Christmas 1963. Eoka/Enosis civilian gangs started on tcs in the larger towns. Politicians denied any organised involvement. Turkey sent over a few jets and threatened intervention. Many tcs withdrew from hostile large town areas in what became the enclaves and from there on in suffered a second class life style. Turkey assists Tcs by providing financial assistance to these people. Gcs grow richer and establish greater power bases. Tcs become poorer and more isolated.

Next big flashpoint is sixty seven. Grivas takes troops to the village of Kofinou and kills more than twenty tcs. Turkey demands immediate cessation of hostilities, threatening invasion again. The trouble stops.

Next biggy happens in Athens where the military probably backed by usa stage a coup to stop Greece becoming to left wing. Tensions between Athens and Makarios. Athens stages coup in 74 with the aim of achieving Enosis. War between Athens and Makarios.

In light of the previous killings of tcs especially 63 and 67, and with the possibility of an even more rightwing Greek ruling power than before, invaded.


Makarios never wanted the constitution. He tore it up. It couldn’t work and it didn’t work. It may have looked reasonable enough but too many nationalists wanted more. In light of this unworkable constitution Turkey has decided to keep troops on the island until a new constitution is found and agreed.


Number of deaths 63 – 74? Who knows maybe 700 tcs and 400 gcs.

It did evolve into a civil war of sorts though the gc govt referred to it as civil unrest.
Gcs ruled in cyprus during this period, and though many left the island few richer pickings they left out of freedom of choice. Many tcs also left but they left through desperation at complete lack of opportunity, the most they got from the gc govt it is reported were free one way tickets off cyprus courtesy of gc Cypriot govt.


So now we have another impasse, until a new constitution can be agreed this is how cyprus will remain, with gc the recognised Cypriot rulers, and tcs still isolated 40 more than forty years after independence.


some posters will despute this brief account, ive left out the nastier bits like archived neswpaper quotes of the more horrific events. it wasnt a nice place but was after all a civil war.


ps sunglassed face should read number eight. -


Wow! Evaluated as an account coming from a TC I would say it’s well said.

However, you totally missed the role of the TC nationalists and their efforts towards taksim. The 1963 and 1967 events did not just happen out of the blue.The TCs themselves were not treating the GCs any better. In fact if any GC would by accident cross inside ANY enclave, it would be a miracle to come out of it alive.There were isolated TC villages all over Cyprus, that were not really enclaves, one could pass from one side to the other with a car with some slight danger of been thrown stones etc. I remember my father always avoided passing through those villages, hence using bypass roads, however once he was in a hurry and had to pass through one of them.I remember the incident as if it happened yesterday when a TC driving an agricultural tractor would not let us pass, he stoped the tractor in the middle of the road, got out and pointing his finger to my father said "you wait here until tomorrow". The road from Nicosia to Kyrenia (a 20 minute ride) was always closed for the GCs for as long as I remember because of the Kionelli enclave and we the GCs had to travel more that 80 minutes all the way around the mountains to go to Kyrenia (more than 80 minutes). It was a situation of a state within a state and you failed to account for the multiple times more hostility of the TCs towards the GCs than the other way round.

NB. There were mixed (GC+TC) villages though where the hostilities never reached.Inside those villages everyone considered members of the other community as brothers.
User avatar
Pyrpolizer
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 10647
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:33 pm

Postby Pyrpolizer » Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:28 pm

Anri_cy wrote: Pyrpolizer I believe that on our side we also need to stop making fun of the TCs' suffering and understand that we are not the only ones who paid a price.


Andri I try to adapt according to whom I am writting. The TCs think they were just Angels in the 60s. I lived through that period although I was just a kid, but I can only tell one thing I remember very well. As much I was afraid from the ugly and brutal faces of the EOKA B thugs, I was equally afraid of the ugly and brutal faces of the TMT thugs.
User avatar
Pyrpolizer
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 10647
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:33 pm

Postby rolo » Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:50 pm

i know of no tmt nationalists personally, nor have i ever heard of any. if i did i would comment. However it would be extremely naive to suggest provocateurs from both sides did not exist

as stated this was some kind of civil war fuelled by the propaganda of horrific stories.

what was expected of the tcs? to roll over and accept enosis without a fight?


For example how would gc react if the roles suddenly changed and tcs became the majority, embarking upon uniting cyprus with turkey, and then took to killing any gcs who objected? Would gc not respond and defend themselves as best it could. Ofcourse gcs would get their shooting guns and throw stones etc. they would do all they could to protect themselves. They too would move out of danger zones for their own protection and live in enclaves, and do whatever they could to entice any support.


to blame the tcs for trying to protect themselves and end their misserable existance would also also be naive.

Unfortunately thousands more were later to die and many thousands more made homeless. dont blame tcs for wanting themselves and their heritage to survive. Gcs or any other people would have done exactly the same had they been in tc shoes.
rolo
Member
Member
 
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:15 pm

Postby zan » Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:52 am

However, you totally missed the role of the TC nationalists and their efforts towards taksim. The 1963 and 1967 events did not just happen out of the blue.The TCs themselves were not treating the GCs any better. In fact if any GC would by accident cross inside ANY enclave, it would be a miracle to come out of it alive.There were isolated TC villages all over Cyprus, that were not really enclaves, one could pass from one side to the other with a car with some slight danger of been thrown stones etc. I remember my father always avoided passing through those villages, hence using bypass roads, however once he was in a hurry and had to pass through one of them.I remember the incident as if it happened yesterday when a TC driving an agricultural tractor would not let us pass, he stoped the tractor in the middle of the road, got out and pointing his finger to my father said "you wait here until tomorrow". The road from Nicosia to Kyrenia (a 20 minute ride) was always closed for the GCs for as long as I remember because of the Kionelli enclave and we the GCs had to travel more that 80 minutes all the way around the mountains to go to Kyrenia (more than 80 minutes). It was a situation of a state within a state and you failed to account for the multiple times more hostility of the TCs towards the GCs than the other way round.



There’s been a war, the TCs are driven into enclaves there is anger and resentment all around and you take throwing stones at a car that should never have ventured into such a sensitive area and add it to your total of hostilities. Mind boggling.
User avatar
zan
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 16213
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:55 pm

Postby Pyrpolizer » Sat Sep 23, 2006 2:48 pm

Zan wrote: There’s been a war, the TCs are driven into enclaves there is anger and resentment all around and you take throwing stones at a car that should never have ventured into such a sensitive area and add it to your total of hostilities. Mind boggling.


You missed the whole point. Those villages where the exception to the rule. They were just few isolated villages here and there surrounded by GC villages.They were not enclaves. And yes throwing stones on cars was perhaps the only thing they could do. Have you ever tried it, I mean to pass through a crowd throwing stones on your car, braking the windshields, having to stop, then what? Be beaten to death perhaps?

Besides you also missed what was actually happening should any GC enter a real enclave. Kih, his head would go missing.

I simply tried to describe what was the situation around Cyprus and you just stuck on the part where I described what was the minimum that could happen to a GC should he dare pass through a TC village that was not an enclave and in any case was surrounded by GC villages…
User avatar
Pyrpolizer
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 10647
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:33 pm

Postby Pyrpolizer » Sat Sep 23, 2006 2:49 pm

rolo wrote: i know of no tmt nationalists personally, nor have i ever heard of any. if i did i would comment. However it would be extremely naive to suggest provocateurs from both sides did not exist

as stated this was some kind of civil war fuelled by the propaganda of horrific stories.

what was expected of the tcs? to roll over and accept enosis without a fight?


For example how would gc react if the roles suddenly changed and tcs became the majority, embarking upon uniting cyprus with turkey, and then took to killing any gcs who objected? Would gc not respond and defend themselves as best it could. Ofcourse gcs would get their shooting guns and throw stones etc. they would do all they could to protect themselves. They too would move out of danger zones for their own protection and live in enclaves, and do whatever they could to entice any support.


to blame the tcs for trying to protect themselves and end their misserable existance would also also be naive.

Unfortunately thousands more were later to die and many thousands more made homeless. dont blame tcs for wanting themselves and their heritage to survive. Gcs or any other people would have done exactly the same had they been in tc shoes.


Did I ever say I cannot understand the Tcs? Did I ever say they are the only ones responsible?
In my opinion most of the plain people TCs and GCs had nothing to do with it. They just suffered the consequences of what some armed groups of both sides were doing. Both sides are to be blamed for the events before 1974. However for what happened in 1974 Turkey holds full responsibility for 32 years now. Most Tcs are happy because they got plenty of the richest properties from the Gcs, we even see TCs here advocating we should forget everything and carry on…. This imo is outrageous, such things can never be forgotten, and the Tcs seem to under estimate how dangerous and explossive the current situation is.

NB. Very few TMTs or Eoka Bs were publicly declaring their roles. But almost everybody knew this and that guy was some sort of a " high ranking officer". It did not come as a surprise to many GCs seeing the X or Y TC doctor, lawyer, or even coffe shop owner wearing a leutenants (!!!!) uniform after the 1974 invasion, and holding an automatic riffle. The same of course was true for the Eoka Bs.
User avatar
Pyrpolizer
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 10647
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:33 pm

Previous

Return to Cyprus Problem

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest