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The impending war against Iran thread

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Re: The impending war against Iran thread

Postby Londonrake » Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:36 pm

Robin Hood wrote:
Londonrake wrote:So far, the result of Iran’s blood curdling vows to avenge Soleimani is hundreds of dead and injured............................. Iranians. :(


The result of US intervention since the end of the Cold War has cost the lives of over 20,000,000 people of all Nationalities and most of them civilians! Got to give it to the US they are not racists ...... they will kill anybody! :roll:

I heard from my secret contacts with .......well I can't tell you who, because they will kill me ........ that the Iraqi's are planning drone attacks to take down Tony Blair and George Bush, as revenge for killing over a million Iraqi's, for destroying their country and for leaving their country littered with radioactive munitions causing an epidemic of birth defects! Just a rumour but I though you would be interested to know! :wink: :?


I think you miss the irony of my point. Not to mention you're trying to deflect from the OP with unrelated tangential subjects.

Out of curiosity though, do you have a link? Please! not an "independent" one - to that 20M figure? I'm not saying it's wrong but after I'd trawled past the sort of rabidly prejudiced sites you love so much:

"Did the US really kill 20M civilians since WW2 through direct military actions and US sponsored proxy wars

Only if you do some insane math.

The sources that say the U.S. killed 8-36 million since WWII often count everyone who died in a conflict the U.S. was involved in as "the U.S. killed them".


For example a source such as The United States Has Killed At Least 8 Million People claims that the U.S. killed 120,000 Guatemalans, 4,000,000 Vietnamese and Cambodians, 3,000 Dominicans, 800,000 Indonesians, 250,000 East Timor people, 80,000 El Salvadorians, 1,000,000 Iraqis, and 700,000 others.

In order to arrive at that number you have to ignore literally everyone else involved in those conflicts.

For just one example it blames 100% of the deaths of 120,000 Guatemalans on America in the Guatemalan Civil War, when Chile, Taiwan, Argentina, Israel, Spain, Sweden, South Africa, Yugoslavia, Belgium, and the Guatemalan Military were all fighting on the U.S. side. The Soviet Union, Cuba, Nicaragua, and FML were all fighting on the opposite side of the U.S.+dozen other countries.

Is it fair to blame civilians killed by the Soviet allies on the U.S.? Is that any way to assign blame?

For another example it blames 4 million Vietnamese deaths on the U.S. Is it fair to blame South Vietnamese civilians killed by North Vietnam, China, and the USSR, on the U.S.?

If you go through any of those numbers you realize that they blame 100% of all deaths from every conflict the U.S. was involved in, including casualties inflicted by enemies of the U.S., on the U.S.

2,000,000 deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan?

No serious source claims the U.S. killed 1,000,000 people in Iraq. Even Wikileaks, which you can hardly call pro-American and most do not consider reputable, puts the figures at below 1/10th of that at 109,032 with 66,000 civilian deaths see Baghdad War Diary. This 66,000 figure includes civilians killed by insurgents.

1,000,000 Iraqis died during the U.S. occupation yes, but that counts all Iraqis dying including Iraqis who died of old age, accidents, and other causes completely unrelated to the U.S. occupation.

Sources that inflate the number as high as 20,000,000 or 30,000,000 often include "quasi wars" where the U.S. was not militarily involved at all and then blame 100% of the casualties on the U.S.

Some blame 100% of the Afghan-Soviet war casualties on the United States, despite the fact it was Soviet soldiers inflicting most of the civilian casualties. The U.S. was backing the forces the Soviets were attacking.


As far as Blair is concerned - the Iraqis have my full support. Although I think you will find that George (well, at least Dad :wink: ) has beaten them to it.

Radioactive birth defects? Are you talking about your inside knowledge that the US "secretly" used a nuclear bomb at Fallujah? IIRC the relevant article you quoted - by a "learned academic" - was actually from a Japanese gentleman who turned out to have been thrown out of his professional body for being a nutcase. His biggest toted conspiracy theory was that the Japanese government were secretly planting nuclear materials around the country.
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Re: The impending war against Iran thread

Postby Robin Hood » Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:49 pm

Deaths due to US wars and Interventions, NOT as I stated, from the end of the cold war but from the end of WWII.

It is difficult to find sites that meet your criterion, they seem to have an aversion to discussing the subject. Unfortunately, trying to get a balance, the same question but addressed to deaths due to ‘Russian wars and interventions’ ..... came up with no results. I suppose this is because every source is controlled by the Kremlin! :roll:
From 1945 until today - 20 to 30 million people killed by the USA - by Manlio Dinucci
https://www.voltairenet.org/article204021.html

Deaths In Other Nations Since WW II Due To Us Interventions - By James A. Lucas
https://www.countercurrents.org/lucas240407.htm


Note: As far as I am concerned deaths due to US Sanctions are also caused by the US. I can’t be bothered to go through all the details ...... but however you look at it ...... they have killed an awful lot of civilians in that time. :x

Birth defects due to depleted uranium. (I note your signature sarcasm!)

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Re: The impending war against Iran thread

Postby Londonrake » Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:07 pm

How about Moon of Alabama's view on the Iranian responsibility for the Lockerbie bombing?
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Re: The impending war against Iran thread

Postby cyprusgrump » Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:18 pm

Robin Hood wrote:Deaths due to US wars and Interventions, NOT as I stated, from the end of the cold war but from the end of WWII.

It is difficult to find sites that meet your criterion, they seem to have an aversion to discussing the subject. Unfortunately, trying to get a balance, the same question but addressed to deaths due to ‘Russian wars and interventions’ ..... came up with no results. I suppose this is because every source is controlled by the Kremlin! :roll:
From 1945 until today - 20 to 30 million people killed by the USA - by Manlio Dinucci
https://www.voltairenet.org/article204021.html

Deaths In Other Nations Since WW II Due To Us Interventions - By James A. Lucas
https://www.countercurrents.org/lucas240407.htm


Note: As far as I am concerned deaths due to US Sanctions are also caused by the US. I can’t be bothered to go through all the details ...... but however you look at it ...... they have killed an awful lot of civilians in that time. :x

Birth defects due to depleted uranium. (I note your signature sarcasm!)



You're mental... hand yourself in... :wink:
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Re: The impending war against Iran thread

Postby Paphitis » Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:44 am

Londonrake wrote:How about Moon of Alabama's view on the Iranian responsibility for the Lockerbie bombing?


It was Scotland! :lol:
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Re: The impending war against Iran thread

Postby Robin Hood » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:30 am

Londonrake wrote:Ohh no! You're talking to me. Why go and spoil it. :( Now I have to answer!

You shouldn't have bothered!

I should start by pointing out that had the Iranians continued to lie you would have been in there churning it out - word for word - as usual. No matter how clearly ridiculous it got. You've never disagreed with anything that's come out of Tehran or any of the other dictatorships you support - ever. Question - am I wrong (no holding of breath here)? Then, you will have the nerve to start lecturing others on how they're brain-washed and incapable of thinking for themselves. Ever the hypocrite.

But you have never proved me wrong to date.

Ohh, you missed the bit about MoA and the Lockerbie thing. Opinion? :? I'm dying to know! Or, as I suspect, is it in the draw with your proof that Israel has threatened to use nuclear weapons against Iran and all the other things you've gotten wrong?

I disagree with his theory ......... as I previously explained in this thread! Mere accusation and hypothesis is not proof. But you never miss the chance to 'put the boot in' and a detailed response from me just provides you with more ammunition. If I ignore you, then I have fallen silent and by default you assume you have 'won'! What a strange person you are!

The Iranians deliberately blew up diddly squat with their missile attack and they absolutely made sure that they didn't kill any Americans, because they knew what the consequences would be. Not out of some magnanimous benevolence. There would have been a price to pay and frankly at the moment they're in a VERY bad place economically, not to mention elsewhere. Had the video been something provided as proof by any of the dictatorships you support then there would have been no question about verifying it's authenticity. I knew what I was looking at as, I suspect, did most people.

Exactly ..... which just shows the Iranians are not as stupid or as arrogant as the US! Proof is something proven ..... when I explain some thing you don't like, to prove a point, you change the subject or ignore it ...... never have you managed a counter argument. It is all about what you think, as you demonstrate in this thread once again!

As for the Iranians not lying. :lol: :lol: :lol: Up until they "gathered all the information" they pushed the line - up to the highest levels of government - that it definitely wasn't a missile that brought the aircraft down but a technical failure.

Well ..... denial seemed to apply to the Iran Air incident ..... having briefly read it up it appears they admitted their mistake some time later but have never accepted responsibility, preferring to blame Iran instead.

Robin Hood wrote:What a difference to the US response to their identical error, in almost identical circumstances, when the USS Vicennes shot down IR655 in 1988. The US denied their responsibility for months, promoted the officers, gave the crew medals and the Captain was given the Legion of Honour for his outstanding performance! It’s the H word again!

But no medals of Honour or promotion for these guys! I would suggest they will pay very heavily for their errors of judgement! Their President has profusely apologised ...... unlike the US President telling the World when HE had just killed 290 people, including 60 children, that as an American he would never apologise ........ irrespective of the evidence! And they never have apologised or paid Iran for the loss of the aircraft.

So, let me get this right. A Tor crew return to their base with 2 missiles light and "lie" about what's happened to the point where they fooled their superiors, right up to government level? If you believe that then you will believe anything. But then Hood routinely does - outside the box of course.

No .... I think being realistic instead of theatrical, that you’ve got it wrong!


Total BS. The Vincennes was in a combat zone and had that day been in action against Iranian gunboats, which had engaged one of its helicopters. A year earlier the USS Stark had been attacked in the same area by an Iraqi aircraft which launched an Exocet, thinking it was an Iranian ship, killing 37 of its crew. The Vincennes crew believed they were dealing with an Iranian F14 which they had been briefed (incorrectly) was equipped with air to ground missiles. Nevertheless, they made 10 attempts to contact the aircraft on military and civil frequencies (including distress 243 and 121.5). Within days of the incident Reagan contacted the Iranian government offering his deep regret. It was the Vice President, George Bush who said he would "Never apologise for America" (shortly after to run for the Presidency). Reparations were made at the ICJ, where again deep regret for the incident was proferred. The crew of the Vincennes were awarded standard medals for their 4 year tour in a combat zone, as is the custom (Americans get medals for long service breathing). The Captain was awarded The Legion of Honour for his command of the ship over the period 87 - 89. Nobody, as yourself and others of the same vitriolic view often claim, was given a medal for the IR655 incident, which was a tragic mistake (just like this week in Iran).

The Vincennes incident occurred in an active war zone where both sides were on high alert and had earlier engaged and where USN personnel had previously died during an aircraft attack. Nobody covered it up at any point. Not at all like what happened this week in Iran.

As far as MH17 was concerned. I have no recollection of saying that Kerry's so called evidence was conclusive. Do you have a link?

It is on the Cyprus Eastern Forum site dated July 2014 ..... I don't have access but I am sure your powers of detection will find it! But it's true!

What I do recollect is that throughout the long saga you parroted absolutely everything the Russians came out with (well, as always). At the beginning you entirely agreed with the "evidence" that the flight had been lured into a quiet area so that it could be shot down by a Ukrainian fighter (to make the rebels look bad :roll: ). You even said that from your previous experience in Iran you recognised the damage done by cannon shells to the fuselage wreck. It's a long story but you basically supported and promoted everything the Russians came out with on the matter. When a report was released by the joint (mainly Dutch) committee, after an extensive 2 year investigation, it was revealed that in fact MH17 had followed an entirely normal flight path and had been brought down by a Russian made missile launched from a separatist rebel area near Pervomaisky. The report was quite detailed and concluded that the aircraft had been destroyed by a BUK missile system brought in from and then returned to Russia after the event. You refused to accept that (see earlier account of your accepting Russian story of Ukrainian fighter within days of the incident).

Sorry can't be bothered to spend the time on more defence, although a lot more evidence has come out that was never considered ..... because Ukraine objected and that raises a lot of questions as to the impartiality of the investigation The same is happening with Skripal, Douma, Ghouta etc and other incidents that were 'investigated' by what now appears to be a thoroughly corrupt OPCW. Even the Malaysians have questioned the impartiality and conducting of the whole Dutch enquiry and why they were initially left out but a prime suspect, Ukraine, was allowed to set all the conditions for any disclosures! Once again ..... you spouted the official line .... which in a lot of cases is and always was, very wobbly!

Robin Hood wrote:As a useful idiot yourself ....... one who ‘spouts’ rather than thinks but then accuses others who are capable of independent thought (outside the box even) of being idiots ...... you have identified your inherent weakness and inability to analyse the level of probability in any situation, most admirably!


You are 30 years brainwashed! You sing the company song and that's all. You reject all other opinions without an explanation. When I do go to the trouble to explain .... all I get is TLDR or a stream of theatrical sarcasm as you play to your audience.

What does that mean? I've no idea. :? I have I think pointed out correctly that over a very extensive period you've agreed fully with and supported absolutely every line that has come out of numerous dictatorial regimes - 100%. I submit that the term "useful idiot" is entirely appropriate. Concurrently, you have (as above) accused everybody that has had a different opinion to yourself of being incapable of independent thought. That's clearly, rank hypocrisy.

Please don't twist and exaggerate! I see very little to criticise when it comes to Putin/Russia! Not by the sort of indoctrination that fuels your hatred, but by observation of events and the results. Crimea being a classic example ..... you ignore reality in favour of a story that supports your opinion. The same goes for Assad ....... most of the information the MSM provides originates from Western backed terrorist sources, like the White Helmets. You may not like it but I prefer the more complete versions of the stories that do not rely just on the MSM sources.


Robin Hood wrote:Did the nice Flt,Sgt never scream in your ear “You don’t THINK laddie ..... I do the thinking and you do what I tell you!” There again, maybe half wit Flt.Sgt’s only shouted like that at RAF Apprentices like me!

Well, there's an interesting insight into your psyche. You definitely have some mental issues where that sort of thing's concerned. Certainly a problem with accepting any sort of authority. You seem to have spent your entire life fighting it - in any form. The rugged individual. Jut a wild stab but - only child?


I have never been required to salute anyone since leaving the RAF and have never been a YES man! It has got me into hot water on occasion I admit ...... but standing up for what I believe has also got me to positions way beyond my qualifications due to the fact I am competent, make a point of getting my facts right before opening my mouth and taking on arseholes who thought they were smarter than me, as I have invariably proved my point when push-came-to-shove.

Only child? No, but always very independent.


Robin Hood wrote:ProVox:
OOps! :lol:


Robin Hood wrote:You sound just like LR ..... confess, confess, confess ...... admit you are wrong, admit it ..... bow down, confess your sins!!


Confess? :lol: No. I think though it worth pointing out (ohh, and I will) that somebody who's been active on numerous forums, over a 10 year period, who has never once admitted that he got something wrong has ...................a problem. It's called "arrogance". I truly think that if you had to admit you got something wrong (a first) your self regard would simply implode. :wink:

If I am wrong, I have no problem admitting it but first prove me wrong, never expect me to apologise just because I may have offended you or bruised your feelings.

Robin Hood wrote:BTW: I think you, LR and Paphitis are a classic comedy trio!


Confirmed by their latest contributions!

But - not unusually - you miss the essential point. We 3 are the people who dare to have a different opinion. Although, to be fair, you seem to have missed out Kicks. Who. if I understood him correctly, also seemed to think your version of the downing of flight 752 was a load of bollocks. :wink:

No ..... you agree with one another's opinions but they are all from the same sources. But I never presented any 'version' on the downing of 752, so you mislead once again ............. as I stated, I went for the 'let's wait and see' option. It was you and the rest of the Three Stooges that immediately pointed the finger at Iran. You had it all sown up without a shred of tangible evidence! It was all opinion, but good enough for you to accuse.


On a personal note. This remains a mystery to me. We've never gotten on in forums. Never have, never will. It's a clear given. Despite that in the "real world" I thought we were doing OK. Why, after what, 4 months? you decided to come back and fuck that all up escapes me. I can only assume you have - as is often the case - run out of people on your new forum. :? You do of course have a serious addiction and - as I have said many times - a completely obnoxious and toxic forum persona. It's always seemed odd to me that, no matter how many people you fall out with, you simply don't seem to get it and instead, for some reason, persist in regarding yourself as the much maligned victim. :?

No ..... you see as is abundantly obvious here, you leap to the conclusions that suit your narrative. I actually sometimes post the same on here as I do on another forum. The difference in responses is quite remarkable! The other forum has a lot of Americans on. They can be split into 'The Red Necks' whose narative Paphitis mirrors wonderfully, and the more sensible Americans who can recognise why the US is not quite the Nation that the Red Necks think it is and the slagging off is between them ..... not me!

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Re: The impending war against Iran thread

Postby Robin Hood » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:32 am

Londonrake wrote:How about Moon of Alabama's view on the Iranian responsibility for the Lockerbie bombing?


AS PREVIOUSLY EXPLAINED TO YOU :roll: ....... I disagree with his conclusion and explained why!
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Re: The impending war against Iran thread

Postby repulsewarrior » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:21 am

...one of the four arrested, it is reported, was the individual who inadvertently recorded the missile attack while using his video recorder.

A "Special Court" will be opened, because the whole world will be watching, says the Supreme leader.

...meanwhile violence has returned to the streets, as protesters are fired upon with live ammunition, it is alleged.
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Re: The impending war against Iran thread

Postby Robin Hood » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:45 am

repulsewarrior wrote:...one of the four arrested, it is reported, was the individual who inadvertently recorded the missile attack while using his video recorder.

A "Special Court" will be opened, because the whole world will be watching, says the Supreme leader.

...meanwhile violence has returned to the streets, as protesters are fired upon with live ammunition, it is alleged. :?:


I received this a couple of days ago but didn’t bother to post it here, for obvious reasons, but your link seems to give credence to the observations made in this article. Do you really think '.....who inadvertently recorded the missile attack' is even remotely true? :lol: :lol:

Iran Jet Disaster Setup ......... by Soraya Sepahpour-Ulrich, Finian Cunningham

The anonymous videographer is the person who caught the 19-second clip which shows a missile striking Flight PS752 shortly after take-off from Tehran’s Imam Khomenei airport at around 6.15 am. This person, who remains silent during the filming while smoking a cigarette (the smoke briefly wafts over the screen), is standing in the suburb of Parand looking northwest. His location was verified by the NY Times using satellite data. The rapid way the newspaper’s technical resources were marshalled raises a curious question about how a seemingly random video submission was afforded such punctilious attention.

But the big question which many people on social media are asking is: why was this “videographer” standing in a derelict industrial area outside Tehran at around six o’clock in the morning with a mobile phone camera training on a fixed angle to the darkened sky? The airliner is barely visible, yet the sky-watching person has the camera pointed and ready to film a most dramatic event, seconds before it happened. That strongly suggests, foreknowledge.

Given that something awful has just been witnessed it is all the more strange that the person holding the camera remains calm and unshaken. There is no audible expression of shock or even the slightest disquiet.

Turns out that Nariman Gharib, the guy who received the video and credited by the NY Times for submitting it, is a vociferous anti-Iranian government dissident who does not live in Iran. He ardently promotes regime change in his social media posts.


In the latest shoot-down of the airliner above Tehran, the tight liaison between a suspiciously placed anonymous videographer on the ground and an expatriate Iranian dissident who then gets the prompt and generous technical attention of the NY Times suggests a level of orchestration, not, as we are led to believe, a random happenstance submission. More sinisterly, the fateful incident was a setup.

https://sptnkne.ws/AZbx


All hypothesis but .......... If as your link says the Iranian authorities have arrested the videographer and he ‘sings’ then although the Iranians admitted their responsibility, the finger of culpability could well start pointing in other directions. Not that the majority would even consider an alternative possibility!
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Re: The impending war against Iran thread

Postby cyprusgrump » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:31 am

Robin Hood wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:...one of the four arrested, it is reported, was the individual who inadvertently recorded the missile attack while using his video recorder.

A "Special Court" will be opened, because the whole world will be watching, says the Supreme leader.

...meanwhile violence has returned to the streets, as protesters are fired upon with live ammunition, it is alleged. :?:


I received this a couple of days ago but didn’t bother to post it here, for obvious reasons, but your link seems to give credence to the observations made in this article. Do you really think '.....who inadvertently recorded the missile attack' is even remotely true? :lol: :lol:

Iran Jet Disaster Setup ......... by Soraya Sepahpour-Ulrich, Finian Cunningham

The anonymous videographer is the person who caught the 19-second clip which shows a missile striking Flight PS752 shortly after take-off from Tehran’s Imam Khomenei airport at around 6.15 am. This person, who remains silent during the filming while smoking a cigarette (the smoke briefly wafts over the screen), is standing in the suburb of Parand looking northwest. His location was verified by the NY Times using satellite data. The rapid way the newspaper’s technical resources were marshalled raises a curious question about how a seemingly random video submission was afforded such punctilious attention.

But the big question which many people on social media are asking is: why was this “videographer” standing in a derelict industrial area outside Tehran at around six o’clock in the morning with a mobile phone camera training on a fixed angle to the darkened sky? The airliner is barely visible, yet the sky-watching person has the camera pointed and ready to film a most dramatic event, seconds before it happened. That strongly suggests, foreknowledge.

Given that something awful has just been witnessed it is all the more strange that the person holding the camera remains calm and unshaken. There is no audible expression of shock or even the slightest disquiet.

Turns out that Nariman Gharib, the guy who received the video and credited by the NY Times for submitting it, is a vociferous anti-Iranian government dissident who does not live in Iran. He ardently promotes regime change in his social media posts.


In the latest shoot-down of the airliner above Tehran, the tight liaison between a suspiciously placed anonymous videographer on the ground and an expatriate Iranian dissident who then gets the prompt and generous technical attention of the NY Times suggests a level of orchestration, not, as we are led to believe, a random happenstance submission. More sinisterly, the fateful incident was a setup.

https://sptnkne.ws/AZbx


All hypothesis but .......... If as your link says the Iranian authorities have arrested the videographer and he ‘sings’ then although the Iranians admitted their responsibility, the finger of culpability could well start pointing in other directions. Not that the majority would even consider an alternative possibility!



Just like the people that filmed the aircraft flying into the Twin Towers eh...? Obviously placed there specifically for propaganda reasons... :roll:
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