Robin Hood wrote:What a difference to the US response to their identical error, in almost identical circumstances, when the USS Vicennes shot down IR655 in 1988. The US denied their responsibility for months, promoted the officers, gave the crew medals and the Captain was given the Legion of Honour for his outstanding performance!
It’s the H word again!
But no medals of Honour or promotion for these guys! I would suggest they will pay very heavily for their errors of judgement! Their President has profusely apologised ...... unlike the US President telling the World when HE had just killed 290 people, including 60 children, that as an American he would never apologise ........ irrespective of the evidence! And they never have apologised or paid Iran for the loss of the aircraft.
So, let me get this right. A Tor crew return to their base with 2 missiles light and "lie" about what's happened to the point where they fooled their superiors, right up to government level? If you believe that then you will believe anything. But then Hood routinely does - outside the box of course.
No .... I think being realistic instead of theatrical, that you’ve got it wrong!
Total BS. The Vincennes was in a combat zone and had that day been in action against Iranian gunboats, which had engaged one of its helicopters. A year earlier the USS Stark had been attacked in the same area by an Iraqi aircraft which launched an Exocet, thinking it was an Iranian ship, killing 37 of its crew. The Vincennes crew believed they were dealing with an Iranian F14 which they had been briefed (incorrectly) was equipped with air to ground missiles. Nevertheless, they made 10 attempts to contact the aircraft on military and civil frequencies (including distress 243 and 121.5).
Within days of the incident Reagan contacted the Iranian government offering his deep regret. It was the Vice President, George Bush who said he would "Never apologise for America" (shortly after to run for the Presidency). Reparations were made at the ICJ, where again deep regret for the incident was proferred. The crew of the Vincennes were awarded standard medals for their 4 year tour in a combat zone, as is the custom (Americans get medals for long service breathing). The Captain was awarded The Legion of Honour for his command of the ship over the period 87 - 89. Nobody, as yourself and others of the same vitriolic view often claim, was given a medal for the IR655 incident, which was a tragic mistake (just like this week in Iran).
The Vincennes incident occurred in an active war zone where both sides were on high alert and had earlier engaged and where USN personnel had previously died during an aircraft attack. Nobody covered it up at any point. Not at all like what happened this week in Iran.
As far as MH17 was concerned. I have no recollection of saying that Kerry's so called evidence was conclusive. Do you have a link?
It is on the Cyprus Eastern Forum site dated July 2014 ..... I don't have access but I am sure your powers of detection will find it! But it's true!What I do recollect is that throughout the long saga you parroted absolutely everything the Russians came out with (well, as always). At the beginning you entirely agreed with the "evidence" that the flight had been lured into a quiet area so that it could be shot down by a Ukrainian fighter (to make the rebels look bad
). You even said that from your previous experience in Iran you recognised the damage done by cannon shells to the fuselage wreck. It's a long story but you basically supported and promoted everything the Russians came out with on the matter. When a report was released by the joint (mainly Dutch) committee, after an extensive 2 year investigation, it was revealed that in fact MH17 had followed an entirely normal flight path and had been brought down by a Russian made missile launched from a separatist rebel area near Pervomaisky. The report was quite detailed and concluded that the aircraft had been destroyed by a BUK missile system brought in from and then returned to Russia after the event. You refused to accept that (see earlier account of your accepting Russian story of Ukrainian fighter within days of the incident).
Sorry can't be bothered to spend the time on more defence, although a lot more evidence has come out that was never considered ..... because Ukraine objected and that raises a lot of questions as to the impartiality of the investigation The same is happening with Skripal, Douma, Ghouta etc and other incidents that were 'investigated' by what now appears to be a thoroughly corrupt OPCW. Even the Malaysians have questioned the impartiality and conducting of the whole Dutch enquiry and why they were initially left out but a prime suspect, Ukraine, was allowed to set all the conditions for any disclosures! Once again ..... you spouted the official line .... which in a lot of cases is and always was, very wobbly!Robin Hood wrote:As a useful idiot yourself ....... one who ‘spouts’ rather than thinks but then accuses others who are capable of independent thought (outside the box even) of being idiots ...... you have identified your inherent weakness and inability to analyse the level of probability in any situation, most admirably!
You are 30 years brainwashed! You sing the company song and that's all. You reject all other opinions without an explanation. When I do go to the trouble to explain .... all I get is TLDR or a stream of theatrical sarcasm as you play to your audience.What does that mean? I've no idea.
I have I think pointed out correctly that over a very extensive period you've agreed fully with and supported absolutely every line that has come out of numerous dictatorial regimes - 100%. I submit that the term "useful idiot" is entirely appropriate. Concurrently, you have (as above) accused everybody that has had a different opinion to yourself of being incapable of independent thought. That's clearly, rank hypocrisy.
Please don't twist and exaggerate! I see very little to criticise when it comes to Putin/Russia! Not by the sort of indoctrination that fuels your hatred, but by observation of events and the results. Crimea being a classic example ..... you ignore reality in favour of a story that supports your opinion. The same goes for Assad ....... most of the information the MSM provides originates from Western backed terrorist sources, like the White Helmets. You may not like it but I prefer the more complete versions of the stories that do not rely just on the MSM sources.Robin Hood wrote:Did the nice Flt,Sgt never scream in your ear “You don’t THINK laddie ..... I do the thinking and you do what I tell you!” There again, maybe half wit Flt.Sgt’s only shouted like that at RAF Apprentices like me!
Well, there's an interesting insight into your psyche. You definitely have some mental issues where that sort of thing's concerned. Certainly a problem with accepting any sort of authority. You seem to have spent your entire life fighting it - in any form. The rugged individual. Jut a wild stab but - only child?
I have never been required to salute anyone since leaving the RAF and have never been a YES man! It has got me into hot water on occasion I admit ...... but standing up for what I believe has also got me to positions way beyond my qualifications due to the fact I am competent, make a point of getting my facts right before opening my mouth and taking on arseholes who thought they were smarter than me, as I have invariably proved my point when push-came-to-shove.
Only child? No, but always very independent.Robin Hood wrote:ProVox:
OOps!
Robin Hood wrote:You sound just like LR ..... confess, confess, confess ...... admit you are wrong, admit it ..... bow down, confess your sins!!
Confess?
No. I think though it worth pointing out (ohh, and I will) that somebody who's been active on numerous forums, over a 10 year period, who has never
once admitted that he got something wrong has ...................a problem. It's called "arrogance". I truly think that if you had to admit you got something wrong (a first) your self regard would simply implode.
If I am wrong, I have no problem admitting it but first prove me wrong, never expect me to apologise just because I may have offended you or bruised your feelings.Robin Hood wrote:BTW: I think you, LR and Paphitis are a classic comedy trio!
Confirmed by their latest contributions!But - not unusually - you miss the essential point. We 3 are the people who dare to have a different opinion. Although, to be fair, you seem to have missed out Kicks. Who. if I understood him correctly, also seemed to think your version of the downing of flight 752 was a load of bollocks.
No ..... you agree with one another's opinions but they are all from the same sources. But I never presented any 'version' on the downing of 752, so you mislead once again ............. as I stated, I went for the 'let's wait and see' option. It was you and the rest of the Three Stooges that immediately pointed the finger at Iran. You had it all sown up without a shred of tangible evidence! It was all opinion, but good enough for you to accuse.On a personal note. This remains a mystery to me. We've never gotten on in forums. Never have, never will. It's a clear given. Despite that in the "real world" I thought we were doing OK. Why, after what, 4 months? you decided to come back and fuck that all up escapes me. I can only assume you have - as is often the case - run out of people on your new forum.
You do of course have a serious addiction and - as I have said many times - a completely obnoxious and toxic forum persona. It's always seemed odd to me that, no matter how many people you fall out with, you simply don't seem to get it and instead, for some reason, persist in regarding yourself as the much maligned victim.
No ..... you see as is abundantly obvious here, you leap to the conclusions that suit your narrative. I actually sometimes post the same on here as I do on another forum. The difference in responses is quite remarkable! The other forum has a lot of Americans on. They can be split into 'The Red Necks' whose narative Paphitis mirrors wonderfully, and the more sensible Americans who can recognise why the US is not quite the Nation that the Red Necks think it is and the slagging off is between them ..... not me! 
