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The impending war against Iran thread

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Re: The impending war against Iran thread

Postby Londonrake » Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:14 pm

Robin Hood wrote:It seems to be a very rare case where basically everyone was right. No doubt an Iranian military guy is sitting in a very unpleasant jail cell, awaiting his punishment for lying.


What happened?

On 8 January, in response to the killing of Soleimani the Iranians launched a saturation ballistic missile attack on 2 US bases in Iraq. Afterwards the Iranian air defence system would have been on high alert for possible US reprisals. During all of this a Ukrainian 737 takes off from Tehran airport and, whilst climbing out, is hit by a SAM, plunging to earth in flames killing all 176 on board. A video is released showing the missile attack and aircraft descent/crash.

That sequence of events is initially discounted as coming from robotic thinkers programmed by the MSM. As opposed to the likes of Hood who can "think outside the box". The video evidence, along with all the other explanations from western sources are discounted as fake/misinformation/uninformed assumptions.

To admit the incident as being the result of human error in such a situation would have been understandable but what we then get are days of lies from the Iranians saying that it was absolutely not a missile attack but due to a technical catastrophe. Today, probably realising the futility (as with the seizing of the Stena Impero "in Iranian waters") they come clean. Obviously, they aren't a patch on the Russians at blagging their way out of this sort of situation.

So, let me get this right. A Tor crew return to their base with 2 missiles light and "lie" about what's happened to the point where they fooled their superiors, right up to government level? :roll: If you believe that then you will believe anything. But then Hood routinely does - outside the box of course.

This is a text book example of how the useful idiots think and act in such situations (using the term "think" loosely).
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Re: The impending war against Iran thread

Postby Londonrake » Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:21 pm

cyprusgrump wrote:Everybody except you obviously! :lol:

...but then you'll never admit that will you...? :roll:


Absolutely! At least, not in the time I've known him. Not a single admission of error in 10 years. What you'll get when you score a point is .........................silence.

Speaking of which - topically. There's been no comment on that Deity, MoonofAlabama's view that the Iranians were responsible for the Lockerbie bombing. A conundrum. :wink:
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Re: The impending war against Iran thread

Postby cyprusgrump » Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:29 pm

Londonrake wrote:
cyprusgrump wrote:Everybody except you obviously! :lol:

...but then you'll never admit that will you...? :roll:


Absolutely! At least, not in the time I've known him. Not a single admission of error in 10 years. What you'll get when you score a point is .........................silence.

Speaking of which - topically. There's been no comment on that Deity, MoonofAlabama's view that the Iranians were responsible for the Lockerbie bombing. A conundrum. :wink:



Denial: Not just a river in Egypt... :lol:
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Re: The impending war against Iran thread

Postby Londonrake » Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:36 pm

So far, the result of Iran’s blood curdling vows to avenge Soleimani is hundreds of dead and injured............................. Iranians. :(
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Re: The impending war against Iran thread

Postby cyprusgrump » Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:25 pm

Londonrake wrote:So far, the result of Iran’s blood curdling vows to avenge Soleimani is hundreds of dead and injured............................. Iranians. :(



Aye, and some people think we should let them have nuclear weapons... :roll:
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Re: The impending war against Iran thread

Postby Robin Hood » Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:56 pm

Londonrake:
What happened?

On 8 January, in response to the killing of Soleimani the Iranians launched a saturation ballistic missile attack on 2 US bases in Iraq. Afterwards the Iranian air defence system would have been on high alert for possible US reprisals. During all of this a Ukrainian 737 takes off from Tehran airport and, whilst climbing out, is hit by a SAM, plunging to earth in flames killing all 176 on board. A video is released showing the missile attack and aircraft descent/crash.

Basically correct! The Iranians also gave the US a heads up via the Swiss Embassy a couple of hours before the attack, to avoid casualties, you missed that bit out! The video came out I believe yesterday and apart from the usual Bellingcat instant analysis it was not verified what the source was or its authenticity.
That sequence of events is initially discounted as coming from robotic thinkers programmed by the MSM. As opposed to the likes of Hood who can "think outside the box". The video evidence, along with all the other explanations from western sources are discounted as fake/misinformation.

Not true and is ..... Fake/Disinformation ....... driven by hyper bias? That is your MO, attack the messenger!

The initial response was actually .......... ‘ that before wild accusations are made we should allow time for an investigation’ ...... which has taken 3-4 days. All the other ‘...... information from Western sources’ was reminiscent of John Kerry and his ‘irrefutable proof’3 hrs after it happened, of Russia shooting down MH17, which a certain member at the time decided on that assurance ‘.... was pretty conclusive!’. But of course nobody has ever seen this irrefutable evidence, no more than the evidence for Saddam’s WMD’s! So forgive me if I don’t swallow information from Western, or any other sources, verbatim, which is why I went for the ‘wait-and-see’ option.
To admit the incident as being the result of human error in such a situation would have been understandable but what we then get are days of lies from the Iranians saying that it was absolutely not a missile attack but due to a technical catastrophe.

Biased and misleading crap once again ....... They didn’t lie! They were initially unaware of any of the detail, all they got was accusations ! When they had gathered all the information they admitted their error. They realised from that information, obviously from all their sources, what had happened .......... the rest is just your gilding of the Lilly once again. (as you are so adept at doing!)
Today, probably realising the futility (as with the seizing of the Stena Impero "in Iranian waters") they come clean. Obviously, they aren't a patch on the Russians at blagging their way out of this sort of situation.

Now more of your ‘Lilly Gilding’! Today, no doubt having assembled all the evidence, they admitted it was their error, accepted responsibility and have profoundly apologised. What a difference to the US response to their identical error, in almost identical circumstances, when the USS Vicennes shot down IR655 in 1988. The US denied their responsibility for months, promoted the officers, gave the crew medals and the Captain was given the Legion of Honour for his outstanding performance! It’s the H word again!

But no medals of Honour or promotion for these guys! I would suggest they will pay very heavily for their errors of judgement! Their President has profusely apologised ...... unlike the US President telling the World when HE had just killed 290 people, including 60 children, that as an American he would never apologise ........ irrespective of the evidence! And they never have apologised or paid Iran for the loss of the aircraft.
So, let me get this right. A Tor crew return to their base with 2 missiles light and "lie" about what's happened to the point where they fooled their superiors, right up to government level? If you believe that then you will believe anything. But then Hood routinely does - outside the box of course.

No .... I think being realistic instead of theatrical, that you’ve got it wrong!

I would bet that the crew were petrified when they realised what they had done! As many military officers or indeed Managers do when they make a calamitous mistake, they would look for a way out of the shit pile they have just created and I should think in this case the f**k-up became obvious in minutes, if not seconds!

They certainly didn’t gleefully get on the phone to HQ and say “Hey Fellas, you aren’t going to believe this but, we have just shot down a Yankee aircraft, intruding into our air-space!” If it was a normal person they would be throwing up in the toilet when the reality hit them and, not just the Officer in charge, but the whole crew! They were/are all doomed men ...... “I was just following orders!” ..... won’t and never did cut it!
This is a text book example of how the useful idiots think and act in such situations (using the term "think" loosely).

As a useful idiot yourself ....... one who ‘spouts’ rather than thinks but then accuses others who are capable of independent thought (outside the box even) of being idiots ...... you have identified your inherent weakness and inability to analyse the level of probability in any situation, most admirably!

Did the nice Flt,Sgt never scream in your ear “You don’t THINK laddie ..... I do the thinking and you do what I tell you!” There again, maybe half wit Flt.Sgt’s only shouted like that at RAF Apprentices like me! :roll:
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Re: The impending war against Iran thread

Postby Robin Hood » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:26 pm

ProVox:
It seems to be a very rare case where basically everyone was right

Cyprusgrump:
Everybody except you obviously! ...but then you'll never admit that will you...?

You sound just like LR ..... confess, confess, confess ...... admit you are wrong, admit it ..... bow down, confess your sins!!

However ...... I don’t think I passed any opinion as to what happened or who was responsible and took the obvious line that it would be more sensible to wait until there was some definite information! Now we have it ..... so I was right to take the line I did, as you acknowledge! So I am rather confused as to what I am supposed to admit I got wrong.

BTW: I think you, LR and Paphitis are a classic comedy trio!

One has his head in a bucket ..... one has his head in the clouds ...... and one has his head up his arse! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The impending war against Iran thread

Postby Robin Hood » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:42 pm

Londonrake wrote:So far, the result of Iran’s blood curdling vows to avenge Soleimani is hundreds of dead and injured............................. Iranians. :(


The result of US intervention since the end of the Cold War has cost the lives of over 20,000,000 people of all Nationalities and most of them civilians! Got to give it to the US they are not racists ...... they will kill anybody! :roll:

I heard from my secret contacts with .......well I can't tell you who, because they will kill me ........ that the Iraqi's are planning drone attacks to take down Tony Blair and George Bush, as revenge for killing over a million Iraqi's, for destroying their country and for leaving their country littered with radioactive munitions causing an epidemic of birth defects! Just a rumour but I though you would be interested to know! :wink: :?
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Re: The impending war against Iran thread

Postby cyprusgrump » Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:55 pm

Robin Hood wrote:ProVox:
It seems to be a very rare case where basically everyone was right

Cyprusgrump:
Everybody except you obviously! ...but then you'll never admit that will you...?

You sound just like LR ..... confess, confess, confess ...... admit you are wrong, admit it ..... bow down, confess your sins!!

However ...... I don’t think I passed any opinion as to what happened or who was responsible and took the obvious line that it would be more sensible to wait until there was some definite information! Now we have it ..... so I was right to take the line I did, as you acknowledge! So I am rather confused as to what I am supposed to admit I got wrong.

BTW: I think you, LR and Paphitis are a classic comedy trio!

One has his head in a bucket ..... one has his head in the clouds ...... and one has his head up his arse! :lol: :lol: :lol:


Well yes... I sure that is completely true...

...apart from the tiny fact that you tried to pass it off as engine failure earlier in the thread! :lol:

What a shame the Interwebz have such a good memory eh...? :wink:

Are you completely mental...? :?
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Re: The impending war against Iran thread

Postby Londonrake » Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:10 pm

Ohh no! You're talking to me. Why go and spoil it. :( Now I have to answer!

I should start by pointing out that had the Iranians continued to lie you would have been in there churning it out - word for word - as usual. No matter how clearly ridiculous it got. You've never disagreed with anything that's come out of Tehran or any of the other dictatorships you support - ever. Question - am I wrong (no holding of breath here)? Then, you will have the nerve to start lecturing others on how they're brain-washed and incapable of thinking for themselves. Ever the hypocrite.

Ohh, you missed the bit about MoA and the Lockerbie thing. Opinion? :? I'm dying to know! Or, as I suspect, is it in the draw with your proof that Israel has threatened to use nuclear weapons against Iran and all the other things you've gotten wrong?

The Iranians deliberately blew up diddly squat with their missile attack and they absolutely made sure that they didn't kill any Americans, because they knew what the consequences would be. Not out of some magnanimous benevolence. There would have been a price to pay and frankly at the moment they're in a VERY bad place economically, not to mention elsewhere. Had the video been something provided as proof by any of the dictatorships you support then there would have been no question about verifying it's authenticity. I knew what I was looking at as, I suspect, did most people.

As for the Iranians not lying. :lol: :lol: :lol: Up until they "gathered all the information" they pushed the line - up to the highest levels of government - that it definitely wasn't a missile that brought the aircraft down but a technical failure.

Robin Hood wrote:What a difference to the US response to their identical error, in almost identical circumstances, when the USS Vicennes shot down IR655 in 1988. The US denied their responsibility for months, promoted the officers, gave the crew medals and the Captain was given the Legion of Honour for his outstanding performance! It’s the H word again!

But no medals of Honour or promotion for these guys! I would suggest they will pay very heavily for their errors of judgement! Their President has profusely apologised ...... unlike the US President telling the World when HE had just killed 290 people, including 60 children, that as an American he would never apologise ........ irrespective of the evidence! And they never have apologised or paid Iran for the loss of the aircraft.
So, let me get this right. A Tor crew return to their base with 2 missiles light and "lie" about what's happened to the point where they fooled their superiors, right up to government level? If you believe that then you will believe anything. But then Hood routinely does - outside the box of course.

No .... I think being realistic instead of theatrical, that you’ve got it wrong!


Total BS. The Vincennes was in a combat zone and had that day been in action against Iranian gunboats, which had engaged one of its helicopters. A year earlier the USS Stark had been attacked in the same area by an Iraqi aircraft which launched an Exocet, thinking it was an Iranian ship, killing 37 of its crew. The Vincennes crew believed they were dealing with an Iranian F14 which they had been briefed (incorrectly) was equipped with air to ground missiles. Nevertheless, they made 10 attempts to contact the aircraft on military and civil frequencies (including distress 243 and 121.5). Within days of the incident Reagan contacted the Iranian government offering his deep regret. It was the Vice President, George Bush who said he would "Never apologise for America" (shortly after to run for the Presidency). Reparations were made at the ICJ, where again deep regret for the incident was proferred. The crew of the Vincennes were awarded standard medals for their 4 year tour in a combat zone, as is the custom (Americans get medals for long service breathing). The Captain was awarded The Legion of Honour for his command of the ship over the period 87 - 89. Nobody, as yourself and others of the same vitriolic view often claim, was given a medal for the IR655 incident, which was a tragic mistake (just like this week in Iran).

The Vincennes incident occurred in an active war zone where both sides were on high alert and had earlier engaged and where USN personnel had previously died during an aircraft attack. Nobody covered it up at any point. Not at all like what happened this week in Iran.

As far as MH17 was concerned. I have no recollection of saying that Kerry's so called evidence was conclusive. Do you have a link? What I do recollect is that throughout the long saga you parroted absolutely everything the Russians came out with (well, as always). At the beginning you entirely agreed with the "evidence" that the flight had been lured into a quiet area so that it could be shot down by a Ukrainian fighter (to make the rebels look bad :roll: ). You even said that from your previous experience in Iran you recognised the damage done by cannon shells to the fuselage wreck. It's a long story but you basically supported and promoted everything the Russians came out with on the matter. When a report was released by the joint (mainly Dutch) committee, after an extensive 2 year investigation, it was revealed that in fact MH17 had followed an entirely normal flight path and had been brought down by a Russian made missile launched from a separatist rebel area near Pervomaisky. The report was quite detailed and concluded that the aircraft had been destroyed by a BUK missile system brought in from and then returned to Russia after the event. You refused to accept that (see earlier account of your accepting Russian story of Ukrainian fighter within days of the incident).

Robin Hood wrote:As a useful idiot yourself ....... one who ‘spouts’ rather than thinks but then accuses others who are capable of independent thought (outside the box even) of being idiots ...... you have identified your inherent weakness and inability to analyse the level of probability in any situation, most admirably!


What does that mean? I've no idea. :? I have I think pointed out correctly that over a very extensive period you've agreed fully with and supported absolutely every line that has come out of numerous dictatorial regimes - 100%. I submit that the term "useful idiot" is entirely appropriate. Concurrently, you have (as above) accused everybody that has had a different opinion to yourself of being incapable of independent thought. That's clearly, rank hypocrisy.

Robin Hood wrote:Did the nice Flt,Sgt never scream in your ear “You don’t THINK laddie ..... I do the thinking and you do what I tell you!” There again, maybe half wit Flt.Sgt’s only shouted like that at RAF Apprentices like me!


Well, there's an interesting insight into your psyche. You definitely have some mental issues where that sort of thing's concerned. Certainly a problem with accepting any sort of authority. You seem to have spent your entire life fighting it - in any form. The rugged individual. Jut a wild stab but - only child?

Robin Hood wrote:ProVox:

OOps! :lol:

Robin Hood wrote:You sound just like LR ..... confess, confess, confess ...... admit you are wrong, admit it ..... bow down, confess your sins!!


Confess? :lol: No. I think though it worth pointing out (ohh, and I will) that somebody who's been active on numerous forums, over a 10 year period, who has never once admitted that he got something wrong has ...................a problem. It's called "arrogance". I truly think that if you had to admit you got something wrong (a first) your self regard would simply implode. :wink:

Robin Hood wrote:BTW: I think you, LR and Paphitis are a classic comedy trio!


But - not unusually - you miss the essential point. We 3 are the people who dare to have a different opinion. Although, to be fair, you seem to have missed out Kicks. Who. if I understood him correctly, also seemed to think your version of the downing of flight 752 was a load of bollocks. :wink:

On a personal note. This remains a mystery to me. We've never gotten on in forums. Never have, never will. It's a clear given. Despite that in the "real world" I thought we were doing OK. Why, after what, 4 months? you decided to come back and fuck that all up escapes me. I can only assume you have - as is often the case - run out of people on your new forum. :? You do of course have a serious addiction and - as I have said many times - a completely obnoxious and toxic forum persona. It's always seemed odd to me that, no matter how many people you fall out with, you simply don't seem to get it and instead, for some reason, persist in regarding yourself as the much maligned victim. :?
Last edited by Londonrake on Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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