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...this is America.

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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Paphitis » Fri May 14, 2021 2:53 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Kikapu wrote:The problem is, the cops do not treat everyone the same way, and when certain group of people constantly get harassed by the police and have their rights abused, then they end up confronting the police and not trust the police to not be harmed by them and be arrested for victimless “crimes”. Look at how the police made their first contact with Floyd, which was officer had his gun on Floyd’s head as he sat in his car for allegedly passing $20 counterfeit money, to which escalated him being murdered. I doubt the police would have reacted the same way to you or me under the same circumstances.

By the way, the breakdown on the cops dying in line of duty in 2020, only about 50 are gun related. The rest are various other reasons not having direct contact with suspects, including Covid-19 cases. That is a small number vs.the 1,000 suspects the cops shoot and kill each year.


2020 was one of the deadliest years for law enforcement officers on record

By Harmeet Kaur, CNN
Updated 1234 GMT (2034 HKT) January 12, 2021
:arrow: :arrow: :arrow:
Firearms-related deaths were second most common.

After Covid-19, getting shot was the second most common cause of line of duty deaths last year.
Forty-eight officers were shot and killed on the job last year, compared to 51 in 2019, the report stated. Thirty of those officers were killed by a handgun, 13 were killed by a rifle and one was killed with their own weapon. The type of weapon used in the four other deaths is not yet known.

The largest number of firearms-related deaths came while officers were investigating a suspicious person or activity, with 11 such fatalities. Seven were responding to domestic disturbance calls.
Traffic-related incidents were the third leading cause of line of duty deaths, though the number has been trending down in decades, according to the report.

Last year, 44 officers were killed in traffic incidents, with 18 in crashes with another vehicle, 15 struck on the side of the road, eight in single vehicle crashes and three in motorcycle crashes. In 2019, 43 officers died in traffic incidents.
Overall, city law enforcement officers were the hardest hit last year, with 122 line of duty deaths, the report stated. Next were sheriffs with 68 deaths, followed by 31 state and highway patrol deaths.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/12/us/2 ... index.html


Nonsense they don't treat everyone the same.

Facts are, if you are no threat to them, I don't see how any cop could possibly pull out a gun or tazer. If you are a threat, then it could happen. depends on the situation.

If people just chill out and act decently, then there is zero chance of getting shot. if you're holding a gun or other lethal weapon, then you are taking a big chance there.

Cops are the same everywhere.

Australian cops are not immune from bashing people around in custody or having an "accident" down a dangerous staircase.

It depends on how you behave. They wouldn't doing it for the sake of being arseholes if you are not an arsehole.

A Cypriot girl from Melbourne got the royal treatment by Victorian Police last year when she was being a right royal bitch to police at a check point. They waved her through but the next day, she copped it big time and those police were not friendly. They smashed her window and dragged her out by the neck and hair.



The problem is, when citizens exercise their constitutional rights when the police stop them, police often see this as a threat to their authority and power. Of course the police have the right to defend themselves if they are threatened, but in a lot of the cases, the police have shot first and asked questions later with certain suspects from certain ethnic groups which the police tends to instigate the situation to draw strong reaction from the suspects to engage more intrusively than just a simple traffic stop for a tail light violation for example.

I have been stopped several times in my 25 years in the US and also during my many repeated trips to the US since no longer living there, in which in some cases I was issued tickets for speeding, or just been given a lecture on speeding and no ticket, or given a ticket with reduced speed so that I am able to attend traffic school so that no point would be on my driving record and the fine would also be less. Each time no abuse of police power. But not all the people get the same treatment even when they do cooperate with the police as the police have some preconceived images with certain groups, so they dig into deeper turning a simple traffic stop into a witch-hunt. After few of these, then people tend to react as soon as they are pulled over and then in some cases, the shit hits the fan, and so, not all the citizens are treated equally when they are pulled over or stopped on the streets when just walking. Blacks and Hispanics have it worse than other groups in the US.


The only right the citizen has is the right to remain silent. You don't actually have to answer their questions but you are obligated to produce an ID or driver's licence if they ask for it in a traffic stop.

In the above case, the citizen is also obligated to comply with police directives at a checkpoint under the Australian Emergency Act due to COVID restrictions and the Chief medical Officer's directives which are enforceable by law enforcement with a fine of $5000 or jail time.

The police were stopping all cars, not just hers. What happens is they ask for your licence, ID and ask were you are travelling to and the purpose of your travel. if you were traveling for work, you would be free to proceed. But if you didn't have a valid reason, they will order you to return to your home under the lock down rules. Or they will fine you or arrest you.

In her case, they let her through because they could tell she was impossible to deal with. But the next day, she copped it big time and was arrested by SWAT. :D

She was not exercising any constitutional rights. She was just being a pest and got what she deserved. Australian Police don't forget. The chalk it up and then they come for you later. :lol:

The funny thing is, this dainty Cypriot girl was arrested by a Tactical SWAT Team, like the anti terrorism squad everyone saw during the Sydney Siege. probably ex Australian Army Commando Regiment or SAS. Not the kind of people you want to [email protected] around with... :lol:
Last edited by Paphitis on Fri May 14, 2021 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Paphitis » Fri May 14, 2021 3:05 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Kikapu wrote:The problem is, the cops do not treat everyone the same way, and when certain group of people constantly get harassed by the police and have their rights abused, then they end up confronting the police and not trust the police to not be harmed by them and be arrested for victimless “crimes”. Look at how the police made their first contact with Floyd, which was officer had his gun on Floyd’s head as he sat in his car for allegedly passing $20 counterfeit money, to which escalated him being murdered. I doubt the police would have reacted the same way to you or me under the same circumstances.

By the way, the breakdown on the cops dying in line of duty in 2020, only about 50 are gun related. The rest are various other reasons not having direct contact with suspects, including Covid-19 cases. That is a small number vs.the 1,000 suspects the cops shoot and kill each year.


2020 was one of the deadliest years for law enforcement officers on record

By Harmeet Kaur, CNN
Updated 1234 GMT (2034 HKT) January 12, 2021
:arrow: :arrow: :arrow:
Firearms-related deaths were second most common.

After Covid-19, getting shot was the second most common cause of line of duty deaths last year.
Forty-eight officers were shot and killed on the job last year, compared to 51 in 2019, the report stated. Thirty of those officers were killed by a handgun, 13 were killed by a rifle and one was killed with their own weapon. The type of weapon used in the four other deaths is not yet known.

The largest number of firearms-related deaths came while officers were investigating a suspicious person or activity, with 11 such fatalities. Seven were responding to domestic disturbance calls.
Traffic-related incidents were the third leading cause of line of duty deaths, though the number has been trending down in decades, according to the report.

Last year, 44 officers were killed in traffic incidents, with 18 in crashes with another vehicle, 15 struck on the side of the road, eight in single vehicle crashes and three in motorcycle crashes. In 2019, 43 officers died in traffic incidents.
Overall, city law enforcement officers were the hardest hit last year, with 122 line of duty deaths, the report stated. Next were sheriffs with 68 deaths, followed by 31 state and highway patrol deaths.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/12/us/2 ... index.html


Nonsense they don't treat everyone the same.

Facts are, if you are no threat to them, I don't see how any cop could possibly pull out a gun or tazer. If you are a threat, then it could happen. depends on the situation.

If people just chill out and act decently, then there is zero chance of getting shot. if you're holding a gun or other lethal weapon, then you are taking a big chance there.

Cops are the same everywhere.

Australian cops are not immune from bashing people around in custody or having an "accident" down a dangerous staircase.

It depends on how you behave. They wouldn't doing it for the sake of being arseholes if you are not an arsehole.

A Cypriot girl from Melbourne got the royal treatment by Victorian Police last year when she was being a right royal bitch to police at a check point. They waved her through but the next day, she copped it big time and those police were not friendly. They smashed her window and dragged her out by the neck and hair.



The problem is, when citizens exercise their constitutional rights when the police stop them, police often see this as a threat to their authority and power. Of course the police have the right to defend themselves if they are threatened, but in a lot of the cases, the police have shot first and asked questions later with certain suspects from certain ethnic groups which the police tends to instigate the situation to draw strong reaction from the suspects to engage more intrusively than just a simple traffic stop for a tail light violation for example.

I have been stopped several times in my 25 years in the US and also during my many repeated trips to the US since no longer living there, in which in some cases I was issued tickets for speeding, or just been given a lecture on speeding and no ticket, or given a ticket with reduced speed so that I am able to attend traffic school so that no point would be on my driving record and the fine would also be less. Each time no abuse of police power. But not all the people get the same treatment even when they do cooperate with the police as the police have some preconceived images with certain groups, so they dig into deeper turning a simple traffic stop into a witch-hunt. After few of these, then people tend to react as soon as they are pulled over and then in some cases, the shit hits the fan, and so, not all the citizens are treated equally when they are pulled over or stopped on the streets when just walking. Blacks and Hispanics have it worse than other groups in the US.


And when it comes to your constitutional rights, you are only obligated to give them your name and address. You are not obligated to answer questions which they can use against you in order to charge you. If you decide to answer anyway, that's your choice.

But when they decide to arrest you, they are obligated to actually read you your rights. They will tell you you have the right to remain silent, and they will ask you if you understood your rights. If you said no, they can only take you to a holding cell until an attorney explains your rights.

I believe that happens in America as well.

If they don't follow a particular process, they can get into trouble as well.
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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Kikapu » Fri May 14, 2021 4:55 pm

Paphitis wrote:
And when it comes to your constitutional rights, you are only obligated to give them your name and address. You are not obligated to answer questions which they can use against you in order to charge you. If you decide to answer anyway, that's your choice.

But when they decide to arrest you, they are obligated to actually read you your rights. They will tell you you have the right to remain silent, and they will ask you if you understood your rights. If you said no, they can only take you to a holding cell until an attorney explains your rights.

I believe that happens in America as well.

If they don't follow a particular process, they can get into trouble as well.


Paphitis, if you plan to live in the USA, learn these 3 Amendments as your constitutional rights to protect yourself from the police.

1st Amendment
4th Amendment
5th Amendment
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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Paphitis » Sat May 15, 2021 2:06 am

Kikapu wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
And when it comes to your constitutional rights, you are only obligated to give them your name and address. You are not obligated to answer questions which they can use against you in order to charge you. If you decide to answer anyway, that's your choice.

But when they decide to arrest you, they are obligated to actually read you your rights. They will tell you you have the right to remain silent, and they will ask you if you understood your rights. If you said no, they can only take you to a holding cell until an attorney explains your rights.

I believe that happens in America as well.

If they don't follow a particular process, they can get into trouble as well.


Paphitis, if you plan to live in the USA, learn these 3 Amendments as your constitutional rights to protect yourself from the police.

1st Amendment
4th Amendment
5th Amendment


Police comply with these amendments.

st Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

2nd Amendment: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

5th Amendment: No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

They certainly abide by the first amendment as they are an equal opportunity employer of people from all religions and all races, including Black Americans. Doesn't matter what your race or religion.

As for the second amendment, Americans do have the right to bear arms. But unfortunately, there are side effects to this. More crime, gun violence, and more violence against police. As a result, Police in America need to be very careful about their own safety and well being. More police get shot and police will obviously shoot more people. it's a no brainer.

As for the 5th amendment, police will even read you this right if they arrest you. They have an obligation to do that. They also have an obligation to tell the person being arrested that they have a right to appoint an Attorney. If they can't afford an Attorney, the State is obligated to provide one under legal aid. Every citizen has this as a fundamental right and police can't do anything about it.
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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Kikapu » Sat May 15, 2021 8:28 am

Paphitis wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
And when it comes to your constitutional rights, you are only obligated to give them your name and address. You are not obligated to answer questions which they can use against you in order to charge you. If you decide to answer anyway, that's your choice.

But when they decide to arrest you, they are obligated to actually read you your rights. They will tell you you have the right to remain silent, and they will ask you if you understood your rights. If you said no, they can only take you to a holding cell until an attorney explains your rights.

I believe that happens in America as well.

If they don't follow a particular process, they can get into trouble as well.


Paphitis, if you plan to live in the USA, learn these 3 Amendments as your constitutional rights to protect yourself from the police.

1st Amendment
4th Amendment
5th Amendment


Police comply with these amendments.

st Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

2nd Amendment: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

5th Amendment: No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

They certainly abide by the first amendment as they are an equal opportunity employer of people from all religions and all races, including Black Americans. Doesn't matter what your race or religion.

As for the second amendment, Americans do have the right to bear arms. But unfortunately, there are side effects to this. More crime, gun violence, and more violence against police. As a result, Police in America need to be very careful about their own safety and well being. More police get shot and police will obviously shoot more people. it's a no brainer.

As for the 5th amendment, police will even read you this right if they arrest you. They have an obligation to do that. They also have an obligation to tell the person being arrested that they have a right to appoint an Attorney. If they can't afford an Attorney, the State is obligated to provide one under legal aid. Every citizen has this as a fundamental right and police can't do anything about it.


I did not mention the 2nd Amendment. I mentioned the 4th Amendment instead, but you missed it somehow. :wink:

Anyway, what you need to learn is, not how it is written in the constitution because it is left to interpretation, but how it is applied in day to day life when dealing with the police, because in most cases, the police will try to abuse these rights. I recommend you watch a lot of 1st Amendment Audits on YouTube. :idea:
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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Paphitis » Sat May 15, 2021 4:46 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
And when it comes to your constitutional rights, you are only obligated to give them your name and address. You are not obligated to answer questions which they can use against you in order to charge you. If you decide to answer anyway, that's your choice.

But when they decide to arrest you, they are obligated to actually read you your rights. They will tell you you have the right to remain silent, and they will ask you if you understood your rights. If you said no, they can only take you to a holding cell until an attorney explains your rights.

I believe that happens in America as well.

If they don't follow a particular process, they can get into trouble as well.


Paphitis, if you plan to live in the USA, learn these 3 Amendments as your constitutional rights to protect yourself from the police.

1st Amendment
4th Amendment
5th Amendment


Police comply with these amendments.

st Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

2nd Amendment: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

5th Amendment: No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

They certainly abide by the first amendment as they are an equal opportunity employer of people from all religions and all races, including Black Americans. Doesn't matter what your race or religion.

As for the second amendment, Americans do have the right to bear arms. But unfortunately, there are side effects to this. More crime, gun violence, and more violence against police. As a result, Police in America need to be very careful about their own safety and well being. More police get shot and police will obviously shoot more people. it's a no brainer.

As for the 5th amendment, police will even read you this right if they arrest you. They have an obligation to do that. They also have an obligation to tell the person being arrested that they have a right to appoint an Attorney. If they can't afford an Attorney, the State is obligated to provide one under legal aid. Every citizen has this as a fundamental right and police can't do anything about it.


I did not mention the 2nd Amendment. I mentioned the 4th Amendment instead, but you missed it somehow. :wink:

Anyway, what you need to learn is, not how it is written in the constitution because it is left to interpretation, but how it is applied in day to day life when dealing with the police, because in most cases, the police will try to abuse these rights. I recommend you watch a lot of 1st Amendment Audits on YouTube. :idea:


Abuse these rights? Don’t think so.

All they do is ask questions. That’s there job. It’s not their fault people are stupid.

Having said that, it’s always very wise to be very cooperative with them and answer the questions they have. Never a smart move to provoke them.

There is only one instance when you should exercise your right to be silent. And that’s only when you could very well incriminate yourself by answering. I would imagine most people will never find themselves in that boat.

If you have committed a crime or they hate accusing or insinuating that you have, then exercise your right.

If they charge you, they will read your rights anyway. If you choose to still talk then that is by your own choice. It’s not an abuse of power.

They are doing their job.
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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Paphitis » Sat May 15, 2021 4:53 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
And when it comes to your constitutional rights, you are only obligated to give them your name and address. You are not obligated to answer questions which they can use against you in order to charge you. If you decide to answer anyway, that's your choice.

But when they decide to arrest you, they are obligated to actually read you your rights. They will tell you you have the right to remain silent, and they will ask you if you understood your rights. If you said no, they can only take you to a holding cell until an attorney explains your rights.

I believe that happens in America as well.

If they don't follow a particular process, they can get into trouble as well.


Paphitis, if you plan to live in the USA, learn these 3 Amendments as your constitutional rights to protect yourself from the police.

1st Amendment
4th Amendment
5th Amendment


Police comply with these amendments.

st Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

2nd Amendment: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

5th Amendment: No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

They certainly abide by the first amendment as they are an equal opportunity employer of people from all religions and all races, including Black Americans. Doesn't matter what your race or religion.

As for the second amendment, Americans do have the right to bear arms. But unfortunately, there are side effects to this. More crime, gun violence, and more violence against police. As a result, Police in America need to be very careful about their own safety and well being. More police get shot and police will obviously shoot more people. it's a no brainer.

As for the 5th amendment, police will even read you this right if they arrest you. They have an obligation to do that. They also have an obligation to tell the person being arrested that they have a right to appoint an Attorney. If they can't afford an Attorney, the State is obligated to provide one under legal aid. Every citizen has this as a fundamental right and police can't do anything about it.


I did not mention the 2nd Amendment. I mentioned the 4th Amendment instead, but you missed it somehow. :wink:

Anyway, what you need to learn is, not how it is written in the constitution because it is left to interpretation, but how it is applied in day to day life when dealing with the police, because in most cases, the police will try to abuse these rights. I recommend you watch a lot of 1st Amendment Audits on YouTube. :idea:


Oh and the 4th Amendment:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things ...

Now when do police violate this?

Answer is never.

Firstly, let’s say the pull you over and want to search your car. They have to ask you first. If you allow them, then there is no violation. If the person is unaware of their 4th amendment right, and thinks they have no choice, then it’s that persons fault. No violation by the police.

If you say no, they can’t search your vehicle. But they can detain you fir up to 24 hours. Wouldn’t take that long but they would apply to the Attorney General for a search warrant. Which could be approved or denied. If approved, they then get to search your car.

If they come to your house and want to search the property because they suspect something, they would come with the search warrant already in their hands. No violation.
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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Kikapu » Mon May 17, 2021 11:00 pm

Well done US Supreme Court. :D


Reuters
U.S. Supreme Court limits police power to enter homes with no warrant

Mon, May 17, 2021, 4:42 PM
By Andrew Chung

(Reuters) -The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday refused to make it easier for police to enter a home without a warrant for reasons of health or public safety, throwing out a lower court's decision to dismiss a lawsuit brought by a Rhode Island man after officers entered his home and confiscated his guns.

The 9-0 ruling directed the Boston-based 1st U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals to reconsider Edward Caniglia's lawsuit accusing police of violating his constitutional rights by bringing him to a hospital for a mental health evaluation and taking away his guns without a warrant after a 2015 argument with his wife.

Lower courts had ruled that police in the Rhode Island city of Cranston did not violate the Constitution's Fourth Amendment ban on unreasonable searches and seizures. :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-supreme-co ... 09326.html
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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Lordo » Tue May 18, 2021 10:48 am

This is indeed America. It has taken Biden all this time to mention the word Ceasefire yesterday. Why?
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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Paphitis » Tue May 18, 2021 1:46 pm

Kikapu wrote:Well done US Supreme Court. :D


Reuters
U.S. Supreme Court limits police power to enter homes with no warrant

Mon, May 17, 2021, 4:42 PM
By Andrew Chung

(Reuters) -The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday refused to make it easier for police to enter a home without a warrant for reasons of health or public safety, throwing out a lower court's decision to dismiss a lawsuit brought by a Rhode Island man after officers entered his home and confiscated his guns.

The 9-0 ruling directed the Boston-based 1st U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals to reconsider Edward Caniglia's lawsuit accusing police of violating his constitutional rights by bringing him to a hospital for a mental health evaluation and taking away his guns without a warrant after a 2015 argument with his wife.

Lower courts had ruled that police in the Rhode Island city of Cranston did not violate the Constitution's Fourth Amendment ban on unreasonable searches and seizures. :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-supreme-co ... 09326.html


But police always required a warrant to enter a house except if there is some terrorist inside or some madman gunman shooting or killing people.

I think you will find all bets are off then.

But ordinarily of course, if they knock on your door because they want to speak to you, you don’t have to let them in. They may ask and you can decide to let them in. Probably more sensible to let them in if there is no harm in doing so. They are just police and maybe they just want to talk to you about some random thing.

It’s like using your right to not answer their questions. Why would you exercise this right if there is no risk of incrimination? Usually you would exercise it only if there is some chance or risk in doing so, in which case it would be better to consult a lawyer first for your protection. Again, we all have that right.

We don’t have to let them into our house. If you have a drug lab in the back it’s best you don’t, but if you have nothing to hide, then why wouldn’t you?

We have a right to remain silent. But again, why would you if there is nothing to hide or no risk?

I usually find 99.9% of police being good descent people when you speak to them with respect and a smile. And they are less likely to get stroppy too. My advice Kikapu, is to do that and only exercise your rights when you need to. I would suggest most of us will not find ourselves in that situation whereby we need to exercise rights for our protection.

I have found myself in such a situation before. Some years ago I declared an emergency flying an aircraft. I declared a fuel emergency as I was shoved in a holding pattern. NOTAM said 30 minutes holding to be expected. I was carrying that fuel but because we we flying against an upper level Jetstream, I burned a little too much and cut into my holding reserve. So 20 minutes in the hold I was forced to declare “critical fuel” and given priority so I was cleared for my approach.

Filled out an ATSB incident. A week later got a letter to go to the CASA district office for a meeting. I was accused of violating a Regulation “commencing a flight with insufficient fuel”

When I realized it was adversarial and I was under this investigation for violating such regulations i exercised my rights. Contacted my boss and the Union. Had several meetings with Union lawyers and then we responded to their allegations.

Charges were then dropped but it took weeks. They went through my flight plan with enormous detail. Looked at all the Grid Point Winds I used which on the forecasts were lower than what we encounted.

In the end, the matter didn’t even get to court. But if you makes errors and say too much, you can get yourself in the shit big time. You definitely need professional lawyers when you are facing things like this. Can’t just wing it because they can prosecute you.

Last year there was a United Flight inbound to Sydney that did the same thing. Don’t know what the outcome of that was but I heard him on the radio when they declared fuel critical.
Last edited by Paphitis on Tue May 18, 2021 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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