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...this is America.

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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Paphitis » Tue May 18, 2021 2:05 pm

It’s pretty pointless rubbing police up the wrong way because if you do that, chances are they will be pricks. And they can make life difficult. Like defect your car. Or do something just to stuff you up.

Not much to gain but heartache there.

But at the other end of the scale, if you are descent, they could let you off from some traffic misdemeanour just because you were pleasant. Let you off with a warning. Win win there.

So it depends what we all put in too. They have a full day of dealing with societal pricks so someone being nice and respectful makes a nice change for them too.

Bigger chance of a successful outcome if we are all nice.

Of course there are situations where they won’t be nice, in those cases you need to know your rights.

The only time I got very stroppy with police was when I was a victim on some cheap ass reality tv thing. I got pulled over and before the police officer came to speak to me, there were camera crews surrounding my vehicle. It actually scared me.

And I didn’t appreciate it. They wanted to test me for alcohol. I was sober. But I refused the test for which I could have been detained. And that’s what they threatened me with.

My response was, I’ll take any test required of me but those cameras and lights need to be switched off.

I got to say it wasn’t fun and it could of gone bad for me. Afterwards, when I gave them a sample, I was a real smart ass as well. Told the copper we were off to the bar for drinks. Which was true. Had to have the last dig. :lol:

I also threatened them that if any of this guys on tv without my permission they will be hearing from a lawyer. As far as I know, I’m still not famous. :D
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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Kikapu » Tue May 18, 2021 4:31 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Filled out an ATSB incident. A week later got a letter to go to the CASA district office for a meeting. I was accused of violating a Regulation “commencing a flight with insufficient fuel”

When I realized it was adversarial and I was under this investigation for violating such regulations i exercised my rights. Contacted my boss and the Union. Had several meetings with Union lawyers and then we responded to their allegations.


Perfect example, that even though you knew you went by the book on your fuel, you could have fund yourself in legal problems just by telling them the truth. Remaining silent was your best policy. Same thing by not allowing the police into your home, even if you do not have anything to hide. When police get a search warrant from the court, it is for specific purpose and not open ended, which is what will happen if you let the cops in without a warrant. You have right, so use them, or else we will lose them, just like muscles. Use them or lose them in time. So yes, you did the right thing by having the union reps behind you. :D
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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Londonrake » Tue May 18, 2021 5:04 pm

Article from today’s BBC site:

How US police training compares with the rest of the world https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56834733

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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Kikapu » Tue May 18, 2021 6:12 pm

Londonrake wrote:Article from today’s BBC site:

How US police training compares with the rest of the world https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56834733

.


Very good article.

Aside from cops in the US receiving less training and also less educated, there are many who are ex military personal, and we know what kind of training they get, which is not policing, but destruction. There are also many desperate people on the streets in the USA from homelessness to psychological issues which there are many whom are also ex military. US cops do escalate the situation as they abuse their authorities which for so long they have been getting away with it, the whole system is corrupted. Now that police abuse is being filmed is a good thing for the citizens and for the police.
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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Lordo » Tue May 18, 2021 7:10 pm

1. Create a uniform code of policing
Among the most frequently cited problems with American police forces, at least among reformists, is that police trainings vary by department. There is no standardized code of police education.
Los Angeles police officers, for example, receive 960 hours of training before hitting the streets, including implicit-bias courses. On the other coast, New York police get 700, and the NYPD website does not mention bias training.
Some 36 states allow police officers to start working before they've attended basic training, and the average police officer spent about how as much time training as a licensed barber.
The divergence in training protocols is a national problem. "Honestly, it's not even like apples to oranges," Dr. Rashawn Ray, a fellow at the Brookings Institute, told Insider's Connor Perrett.
"It's more like fruit to vegetables. That's just how different they are," Ray, who is also executive director of the University of Maryland's Lab for Applied Social Science Research, added. "That is something that definitely needs to change."
Such a program could also help limit the spread of misinformation in police training programs. Currently, many programs include strategies that lack a basis in research, and there's no central body to regulate them.

2. Focus on recruiting the right people instead of relying on implicit bias training
In the wake of so many police shootings of Black Americans, some politicians have called for a renewed focus on anti-bias training. Police departments should be trained for "racial and religious bias," Biden opined in USA Today, adding that chokeholds should be banned and officers should be tracked for their use of force.
But many police forces already receive such training, and bias training does not work, according to a scholarly review of 492 studies on such training.
"It's not actually going to threaten any entrenched interests or cause any significant change in policing," Dave Bicking, vice president of the Minneapolis-based Communities United Against Police Brutality, told Insider's Rhea Mahbubani.
Jacinta Gau, an associate professor of criminal justice at the University of Central Florida, instead proposed establishing programs that recruit a more diverse set of officers, helping local police forces integrate into the communities they're supposed to serve.
"We cannot train our way out of the current problems," she told Insider.
"Cadet programs can get teens involved in the department and start them on the path toward eventually becoming sworn officers," she added. "Establishing relationships with Black clergy can be a productive way for police to improve their image as well, and possibly reach out to Black youth."

3. De-militarize the police
Since the September 11 attacks, the Pentagon and the Department of Homeland Security have struck deals with local and state police departments, giving them low-cost military-grade weaponry and equipment. The proliferation of military gear has had a noticeable impact on American policing – and the communities they operate in.
Ryan Welch and Jack Mewhirter, the authors of a 2017 study on the militarization of police found a direct correlation between the rise of militarization and more police killings.
Sanford Police Chief Thomas Connolly steps into the department's Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicle. Carl D. Walsh/Portland Portland Press Herald via Getty Images
"Even controlling for other possible factors in police violence (such as household income, overall and black population, violent-crime levels and drug use), more-militarized law enforcement agencies were associated with more civilians killed each year by police," they wrote in the Washington Post. "When a county goes from receiving no military equipment to $2,539,767 worth (the largest figure that went to one agency in our data), more than twice as many civilians are likely to die in that county the following year."
And it's not just the equipment. Military-style training causes unneeded deaths, Craig Atkinson, a documentarian who covers police training, told Insider's Kelly McLaughlin.
"Obviously not all cops are bad, but you take good cops and you give them warrior training and you quickly have an outcome that we see moving across this country right now," Atkinson said.

4. Stop training officers like warriors
Part of the trend of militarizing police includes training them like they're in a warzone.
It's common for police officers involved in killings to have a record of violence. Derek Chauvin, the officer who knelt on Floyd's neck for nearly nine minutes, had been the subject of numerous complaints and internal investigations. Tao Thao, who stood guard as Chauvin killed Floyd, settled an excessive use-of-force lawsuit out of court in 2018 for $25,000.
And existing de-escalation trainings aren't always effective. Rolfe, for his part, completed a nine-hour training course on de-escalation 49 days before he killed Brooks.
Police academy recruit Matthew Marshall doing drills on the sand in Long Beach on Wednesday, May 15, 2019. Brittany Murray/MediaNews Group/Long Beach Press-Telegram via Getty Images
That culture is embodied by the teachings of Dave Grossman, an Army-veteran-turned-police-trainer who describes himself as a "killologist."
"He doesn't see the separation between Fallujah and Ferguson," Atkinson told Insider. "And so he thinks of the police as the first line of defense to Al Qaeda, and there's no difference."
What does he teach the hundreds of police departments he's instructed since 1995? "Killology," a doctrine that dispels with the idea that police should feel shame for killing Americans.
"Are you emotionally, spiritually, psychologically prepared to snuff out a human life in defense of innocent lives?" Grossman asked one group of trainees. "If you can't make that decision, you need to find another job."
According to a 2016 survey, police departments spend an average of 58 hours on gun training, 49 hours on defensive tactics, and eight hours on de-escalation, crisis intervention, and electronic control weapons like Tasers.
Communities United Against Police Brutality railed against the "warrior-cop" style of policing.
"Officers routinely hear that 'every single traffic stop could be, might be, the last stop you ever make in your life,'" the organization wrote in a 2018 pamphlet shared with Insider. "Awakening officers' fear that their work continually puts them in lethal danger, Grossman begins cultivating fear of the public and a readiness to kill."

5. End the stigma around seeking help for mental health
Police forces' self-understanding as warriors may also contribute to a culture of silence, where getting mental-health treatment is taboo. Ninety percent of police officers in the LA police union said seeking therapy was stigmatized, NBC News found in a 2018 poll.
"It's the 'stiff upper lip, don't show any emotion, don't let anything bother you' mentality, but, of course, internally, the stress of the job is impacting you," Risdon Slate, a criminologist at Florida Southern College, told Insider. "The problem is, traditionally, if police officers were to ask for help, they ended up being placed on what we call the 'bow-and-arrow squadron' — their service revolver was taken away and they were given a desk job."
That kind of attitude is going to have an effect on the communities officers are supposed to serve, according to Thomas E. Coghlan, a psychologist and retired New York City Police Department detective.
"It's going to show itself at work and show itself in social interactions out in the community," Coghlan told Insider. "You're putting an officer on the street and out into the public with the right to enforce the law and make an arrest and use lethal force, who's not operating at an optimal capacity and is potentially impaired by some sort of mental health issue."

6. Defund the police
In response to militarization and a level of police violence that disproportionately impacts Black communities, numerous experts have advocated limiting police departments' operational capacity, by defunding them and shoring up social and community services with the newfound cash.
NYPD police officers detain a protester as they clash during a march in Brooklyn, New York, May 30. REUTERS/Jeenah Moon
"When we talk about defunding the police, what we're saying is 'invest in the resources that our communities need,'" Black Lives Matter co-founder Alicia Garza told NBC's "Meet the Press."
The idea has found some success. Last week, San Francisco Mayor London Breed proposed redirecting police-budget money to "programs and organizations that serve communities that have been systematically harmed by past City policies." New York City will slash its $6 trillion police budget by $1 trillion, and Los Angeles is considering up to $150 million in cuts to its $2 trillion police budget.

7. Maybe we should just abolish the police altogether
While reformists believe that police need better education and more oversight. Abolitionists believe that the essential function of policing begets racialized violence, originating as it did in "slave patrols and social control, where human property of enslavers was 'protected' with violence and impunity against people of African descent," as United Nations experts wrote.
After defunding the police, they must eventually be abolished, the abolitionists say. "It's time instead to have a complete rethink about why we're using police in the United States to solve every problem under the sun," Alex Vitale, a sociologist at Brooklyn College and author of "The End of Policing," told Insider.
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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Kikapu » Tue May 18, 2021 11:46 pm

This is how a cunt cop acts when dealing with blacks, escalating the situation ready to murder the next innocent suspect. :evil:



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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Kikapu » Sat May 22, 2021 2:10 pm

Paphitis, if you are heading to the USA soon, I am posting this video again for you to watch plus, a more recent one (part 2) so that you can protect yourself against the police. This is not for because you may be guilty of something only, but more importantly, for your protection because you are innocent. Too many innocent people are thrown into jail because they chose to talk to the police but end up being wrongly arrested.



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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Paphitis » Sun May 23, 2021 12:58 am

Kikapu wrote:
Londonrake wrote:Article from today’s BBC site:

How US police training compares with the rest of the world https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56834733

.


Very good article.

Aside from cops in the US receiving less training and also less educated, there are many who are ex military personal, and we know what kind of training they get, which is not policing, but destruction. There are also many desperate people on the streets in the USA from homelessness to psychological issues which there are many whom are also ex military. US cops do escalate the situation as they abuse their authorities which for so long they have been getting away with it, the whole system is corrupted. Now that police abuse is being filmed is a good thing for the citizens and for the police.


There was a Cypriot Girl in Melbourne who got a lot of destruction a few months ago.

But I think she begged for it. I think she is into a bit of BDSM.

A bit like me thinking of stealing a donut when an Aussie bombshell came in with handcuffs. :D
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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Paphitis » Sun May 23, 2021 1:03 am

Kikapu wrote:Paphitis, if you are heading to the USA soon, I am posting this video again for you to watch plus, a more recent one (part 2) so that you can protect yourself against the police. This is not for because you may be guilty of something only, but more importantly, for your protection because you are innocent. Too many innocent people are thrown into jail because they chose to talk to the police but end up being wrongly arrested.





I'm really sorry Kikapu but I will be talking to police when they wish to talk to me. I think that is the common sense approach. I do not believe you will get very far for not talking to them on what is probably a very trivial matter.

99.9% of the time, when police are talking to me, it's pretty dam benign, or they are talking to me because I did some traffic misdemeanor like exceeding the speed limit by a small amount.

If you don't talk to them, you get a fine, if not more.

With a bit of cooperation, I might just get a little warning and be told to be on my way. best outcome ever.

I don't say how there is much to gain by not talking to them nicely and innocently. Only makes matters worse.

Oh but sure. if they suspect me for anything, which I highly doubt, or they want to charge me for a crime, which they won't, then I won't talk to them. I speak to a lawyer. And I know a few lawyers here in Australia that will drop everything and come out to my aid. Don't know any in the US except for my cousin in LA who is a lawyer.

The police in Australia and US are doing a job and are employed by me to protect and serve me.
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Re: ...this is America.

Postby Kikapu » Sun May 23, 2021 8:30 am

Paphitis wrote:
Kikapu wrote:Paphitis, if you are heading to the USA soon, I am posting this video again for you to watch plus, a more recent one (part 2) so that you can protect yourself against the police. This is not for because you may be guilty of something only, but more importantly, for your protection because you are innocent. Too many innocent people are thrown into jail because they chose to talk to the police but end up being wrongly arrested.





I'm really sorry Kikapu but I will be talking to police when they wish to talk to me. I think that is the common sense approach. I do not believe you will get very far for not talking to them on what is probably a very trivial matter.

99.9% of the time, when police are talking to me, it's pretty dam benign, or they are talking to me because I did some traffic misdemeanor like exceeding the speed limit by a small amount.


If you don't talk to them, you get a fine, if not more.

With a bit of cooperation, I might just get a little warning and be told to be on my way. best outcome ever.

I don't say how there is much to gain by not talking to them nicely and innocently. Only makes matters worse.

Oh but sure. if they suspect me for anything, which I highly doubt, or they want to charge me for a crime, which they won't, then I won't talk to them. I speak to a lawyer. And I know a few lawyers here in Australia that will drop everything and come out to my aid. Don't know any in the US except for my cousin in LA who is a lawyer.

The police in Australia and US are doing a job and are employed by me to protect and serve me.


Ok, have it your way. :D

Then let me suggest to you that you will never ever drink any alcohol with dinner at a restaurant and get stopped by the police on the way home while driving and admit to them that you had a drink (lying at this point will make matters worse) when asked if you had a drink and because you want to be talk and be truthful, then you are rolling the dice what the outcome will be, because a bad outcome with bad cops can affect your pilot’s medical certificate with the FAA, even if you thought that you were under the limit. :wink:
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