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The risks to children of British public schools.

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Re: The risks to children of British public schools.

Postby Paphitis » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:20 pm

erolz66 wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:Actually you own him an apology and at least a thank you for warning you.


He owes the victims of John Hamilton Buckley and the victims of the four other former Geelong teachers, who have all been convicted in separate courts of law of child abuse crimes, an apology.

Disgusting.


You owe all of us an apology for your deplorable envy and class warfare politics.

You do not give a stuff about any child abuse victims. You are instead happy that you have been able to google such things for political point scoring against religious schools and establishment schools like Eton and Geelong.

Deplorable!

No matter what you say, geelong is still one of the most prestigious schools in the world and it will always be a very prestigious school and it will always go from strength to strength.

And no matter what you say, the private School sector is here to stay not just in Australia or the UK, but everywhere.

We are not buying!
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Re: The risks to children of British public schools.

Postby erolz66 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:21 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Paphitis wrote:It's not as if you actually care for any of the families that have their children attend these schools. You consider these families to be families of extreme privilege and you want to wage war against these families and really rape them because you envy this world because that is how people of your political persuasion roll.


Just dot it like this:

Paphitis wrote:Spoiler warning! Extreme nonsense follows.
It's not as if you actually care for any of the families that have their children attend these schools. You consider these families to be families of extreme privilege and you want to wage war against these families and really rape them because you envy this world because that is how people of your political persuasion roll.


That's not nonsense.

Erolz wants funding to stop for these schools. I am not sure how things work in the UK but let's say the Australian Government cuts funding and the private system collapses, then the entire Ayustralian Education System falls apart.

We have hundreds to a few thousand of private schools in Australia. 20% of students in Australia (that's 1 in 5) attend private schools.

In 2018:

there were 3,893,834 students enrolled in 9,477 schools
65.7% of students were enrolled in government schools, 19.7% in catholic schools and 14.6% in independent schools
teachers made up 69.5% of in-school full-time equivalent staff
the grade 7 to 12 Apparent Retention Rate for Australia was 84.5%, and
the student to teaching staff ratio for all schools and affiliations was 13.5.

I don't know what the ratio is in the UK but if it is anything like Australia then the UK Education system will also collapse without the private Sector and Etons.

Erolz is just playing politics of envy and couldn't care in the slightest about the welfare of the rich kids that go to Geelong. he even mentioned and singled out Murdoch who attended Geelong and is one of the wealthiest people on the planet. The guy is worth many Billions. He went to Geelong and he singled Murdoch out because in his mind Murdoch is a vulture.

Murdoch however DOES employ 500,000 people all over the world, whilst Erolz and you are just 2 garagiozithes!


It is nonsense by the mere fact that Erolz' family were either elitists or very rich to afford it while you are totally wrong that he doesn't care for the welfare of other rich(or not so rich) Kids. Do you honestly believe that? if yes give me one good reason for someone to describe his own suffering at such a school, just to warn other parents (you included) who might put their children under the same risk. Does that sound to you as someone who doesn't care???
Actually you own him an apology and at least a thank you for warning you.


Oh he doesn't care alright.

He supports Corbyn and has out and out warfare against these establishment schools, probably because he wasn't treated well by these schools because he is a weirdo.

generally speaking, people who attend these schools are very protective of these institutions. They consider their school a badge of honour. Friendships between old scholars are lifelong.

People who attend schools like Eton or Geelong or other schools such as the ones my kids are attending DO NOT generally come out and support politicians like Corbyn who want to decimate and destroy these "elitist" schools (which will not happen). These schools become a part of your identity. You attend reunions decades later and catch up with old friends. You don't just leave behind a school like Geelong Grammar if you have been privileged enough to attend this institution.

The only thing that will happen is that these schools will become more exclusive and solely for the very rich and be even more out of reach to more people apart from the wealthy 2%.

You see, it's never the people like Rupert Murdoch who will suffer. he doesn't care if Geelong charges $400,000 rather than $40,000. he and his mates can still afford it and he won't even batter an eyelid.

It's the rest of us who suffer.

This is just class warfare and envy politics.


Says the apologist for convicted child sex offenders.
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Re: The risks to children of British public schools.

Postby Paphitis » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:23 pm

erolz66 wrote:
Says the apologist for convicted child sex offenders.


Says the morbid opportunist of deplorable envy politics!
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Re: The risks to children of British public schools.

Postby Pyrpolizer » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:30 pm

Paphitis wrote:
They do not check the parents social status. We have an egalitarian society in Australia. We have newly arrived Afghan migrants attend some of the most expensive schools in Australia. All these schools want is for the families to be fine upstanding conservative families.

They do check the child and our children undergo a serious of tests and are indeed screened. My wife and I enrolled our children for 1 yesr into a Greek Orthodox School at the age of 4 in order to prepare them for their entry into our target school. The kids do undergo IQ tests.



A few posts earlier you were telling us they came to your house and checked you out. Now you deny they do any checks on your social status yet you claim they do IQ tests on children.I started suspecting you are telling us lies. Show me a link proving that Geelong does IQ tests to children before accepting them.

@ Erolz:
Did they do an IQ test on you before accepting you to that private boarding school?
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Re: The risks to children of British public schools.

Postby Paphitis » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:34 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
They do not check the parents social status. We have an egalitarian society in Australia. We have newly arrived Afghan migrants attend some of the most expensive schools in Australia. All these schools want is for the families to be fine upstanding conservative families.

They do check the child and our children undergo a serious of tests and are indeed screened. My wife and I enrolled our children for 1 yesr into a Greek Orthodox School at the age of 4 in order to prepare them for their entry into our target school. The kids do undergo IQ tests.



A few posts earlier you were telling us they came to your house and checked you out. Now you refuse they do any checks on your social status yet they do IQ tests on children.I started suspecting you are telling us lies. Show me a link proving that Geelong does IQ tests to children before accepting them.

@ Erolz:
Did they do an IQ test on you before accepting you to that private boarding school?


Yes they check us out alright. It depends on the school. The schools we targetted certainly did check us out but I don't think they were particularly interested whether we were professionals with status in society, pilots or journos, or a kebab shop owner in little Kabul.

What they wanted to see was a healthy and functional family and not some dead beats and they also wanted to know the reasons why we chose their school and they generally wanted to get to know us. Then they gave us the sales pitch and why their school is highly regarded.

they just wanted to see The Brady Bunch. they also wanted to know some of our views and political stances.

They also wanted to meet the children and talk to them.
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Re: The risks to children of British public schools.

Postby Pyrpolizer » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:45 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
They do not check the parents social status. We have an egalitarian society in Australia. We have newly arrived Afghan migrants attend some of the most expensive schools in Australia. All these schools want is for the families to be fine upstanding conservative families.

They do check the child and our children undergo a serious of tests and are indeed screened. My wife and I enrolled our children for 1 yesr into a Greek Orthodox School at the age of 4 in order to prepare them for their entry into our target school. The kids do undergo IQ tests.



A few posts earlier you were telling us they came to your house and checked you out. Now you refuse they do any checks on your social status yet they do IQ tests on children.I started suspecting you are telling us lies. Show me a link proving that Geelong does IQ tests to children before accepting them.

@ Erolz:
Did they do an IQ test on you before accepting you to that private boarding school?


Yes they check us out alright. It depends on the school. The schools we targetted certainly did check us out but I don't think they were particularly interested whether we were professionals with status in society, pilots or journos, or a kebab shop owner in little Kabul.

What they wanted to see was a healthy and functional family and not some dead beats and they also wanted to know the reasons why we chose their school and they generally wanted to get to know us. Then they gave us the sales pitch and why their school is highly regarded.

they just wanted to see The Brady Bunch. they also wanted to know some of our views and political stances.


I didn't ask for another high school essay.
I asked you to give me a link proving that Geelong does IQ tests to children before accepting them.
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Re: The risks to children of British public schools.

Postby Paphitis » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:49 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
They do not check the parents social status. We have an egalitarian society in Australia. We have newly arrived Afghan migrants attend some of the most expensive schools in Australia. All these schools want is for the families to be fine upstanding conservative families.

They do check the child and our children undergo a serious of tests and are indeed screened. My wife and I enrolled our children for 1 yesr into a Greek Orthodox School at the age of 4 in order to prepare them for their entry into our target school. The kids do undergo IQ tests.



A few posts earlier you were telling us they came to your house and checked you out. Now you refuse they do any checks on your social status yet they do IQ tests on children.I started suspecting you are telling us lies. Show me a link proving that Geelong does IQ tests to children before accepting them.

@ Erolz:
Did they do an IQ test on you before accepting you to that private boarding school?


Yes they check us out alright. It depends on the school. The schools we targetted certainly did check us out but I don't think they were particularly interested whether we were professionals with status in society, pilots or journos, or a kebab shop owner in little Kabul.

What they wanted to see was a healthy and functional family and not some dead beats and they also wanted to know the reasons why we chose their school and they generally wanted to get to know us. Then they gave us the sales pitch and why their school is highly regarded.

they just wanted to see The Brady Bunch. they also wanted to know some of our views and political stances.


You didn't ask for another high school essay.
I asked you to give me a link proving that Geelong does IQ tests to children before accepting them.


I don't know what Geelong do.

But I do know that the school I managed to get my kids into did some basic level IQ tests involving some literacy and numeracy. And this school isn't quite as high as Geelong. I am sure Geelong would be one of the most stringent in Australia. They certainly did not ask for an essay. But we did have to write our reasons for wanting to enroll in this school. We had to explain how we thought we could fit in with their ethos and how we could contribute as parents and as volunteers and all the usual stuff.

here is there prospectus and yes they do have literacy requirements to get into Geelong and they also have a number of disadvantaged Aboriginal Children which probably attend free of charge for inclusion and social equity.

https://www.ggs.vic.edu.au/ArticleDocum ... s.pdf.aspx
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Re: The risks to children of British public schools.

Postby Pyrpolizer » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:15 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
They do not check the parents social status. We have an egalitarian society in Australia. We have newly arrived Afghan migrants attend some of the most expensive schools in Australia. All these schools want is for the families to be fine upstanding conservative families.

They do check the child and our children undergo a serious of tests and are indeed screened. My wife and I enrolled our children for 1 yesr into a Greek Orthodox School at the age of 4 in order to prepare them for their entry into our target school. The kids do undergo IQ tests.



A few posts earlier you were telling us they came to your house and checked you out. Now you refuse they do any checks on your social status yet they do IQ tests on children.I started suspecting you are telling us lies. Show me a link proving that Geelong does IQ tests to children before accepting them.

@ Erolz:
Did they do an IQ test on you before accepting you to that private boarding school?


Yes they check us out alright. It depends on the school. The schools we targetted certainly did check us out but I don't think they were particularly interested whether we were professionals with status in society, pilots or journos, or a kebab shop owner in little Kabul.

What they wanted to see was a healthy and functional family and not some dead beats and they also wanted to know the reasons why we chose their school and they generally wanted to get to know us. Then they gave us the sales pitch and why their school is highly regarded.

they just wanted to see The Brady Bunch. they also wanted to know some of our views and political stances.


You didn't ask for another high school essay.
I asked you to give me a link proving that Geelong does IQ tests to children before accepting them.


I don't know what Geelong do.

But I do know that the school I managed to get my kids into did some basic level IQ tests involving some literacy and numeracy. And this school isn't quite as high as Geelong. I am sure Geelong would be one of the most stringent in Australia. They certainly did not ask for an essay. But we did have to write our reasons for wanting to enroll in this school. We had to explain how we thought we could fit in with their ethos and how we could contribute as parents and as volunteers and all the usual stuff.

here is there prospectus and yes they do have literacy requirements to get into Geelong and they also have a number of disadvantaged Aboriginal Children which probably attend free of charge for inclusion and social equity.

https://www.ggs.vic.edu.au/ArticleDocum ... s.pdf.aspx


show me the exact line where the Geelong prospectus or any other school (including the one of your own children) says they do any IQ tests on candidate students!
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Re: The risks to children of British public schools.

Postby RichardB » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:01 pm

I don't know the system now but 52 years ago, (when in the final year of primary school, aged 11. We took what was known as the 11plus exam, In my area this dictated which school you move on to.
The children with the very top marks were offered a place on a bursary to the then fee paying high school (only 5 pupils a year obtained this) , the next 5%, if my memory serves me correct went to the Grammar school, including myself, and the others wnt to the secondary modern and the results of their 11plus exam dictated which form they would be in
I realise this may not apply today and may not have a great relevance to the topic, but just to point out in my day you could say we did have a kind of iq test
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Re: The risks to children of British public schools.

Postby erolz66 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:22 am

erolz66 wrote:
supporttheunderdog wrote:There is (I would suggest) a factor which may enhance the risk in the UK Private systems and that is boarding where both pupils and many staff will live on site, where, for UK Catholic schools, look at Ampleforth and Down.


That is a significant factor in terms of sexual abuse of children in schools. It is not the only factor imo in the wider of topic of do 'traditional British public Schools' on average subject children to greater risk of harm and damage, especially emotional, than state schools. Did you watch the you tube video ?


The boarding aspect of the classic British Public school system undoubtedly is a major factor in why there is a disproportionate incidence of proven child abuse cases at such schools compared to other types of schools. However I do believe that there is more than just this 'problem'. This focus on sexual abuse of children was a result of the repeated calls on me to 'prove' my contention that there is a statistically greater risk that a child sent to a classic British public school will suffer the kind of harm that can effect them for years after and even their whole lives.

To try and expand and illustrate I am going to share one of my most vivid memories from my 3 years spent at Bedford school.

So it is sometime between 1979 and 1982. We, me and a series of other Bedford School pupils are on a 'games' period. It is cricket net practice. Now me and most of the other boys are 'keen'. We want to get our turn and as quickly as possible. To 'pad up' and bat or to bowl. There is one boy, his name was from memory Pinsker. In public schools back then and possibly still today in some or all only surnames were used, between masters and boys and boys themselves. For example I was not Erol. I was Ziya. Anyway Pinsker was not a 'sporty' boy at all by any description. He was a couple of years above me in age and I knew him principally from the 'Babbage Society', which was basically 'computer club'. There was no 'subjects' around computing back then and in my first year there was not even personal computers in the club. He was tall and gawky and walked in a strange pigeon toed manner. He was also from a family that was not 'super rich' but from one of those 'struggling to pay' families. He was not a boarder, that would have been out of reach for his family financially. I knew this because everyone knew everyone's place on the 'wealth pecking order' from super rich downwards to those on bursaries and scholarships, partial to full. He was a nice guy and intelligent guy and he tought me much about computers. He was however severely bullied as is the way with these things.

Anyway there is maybe 15 - 20 of us and it is time for the Master to chose who is going to go first, at batting and at bowling. Many keen and enthusiastic boys are vying for the slot, myself included. "Me Sir, Me Sir" is the cry from most. Not Pinsker though, he is trying to 'hide' in the background. Who does the master choose ? He chooses Pinsker to bat. Pinsker pleads with him to not have to bat. He offers to bowl. The Master is having none of it. So Pinsker 'pads up'. I can remember the fear on his face. I can remember him shuffling up to the wicket, padded up, in his shuffling pigeon toed gait. Who does the Master chose to bowl. The best 'fast bowler' out of the remaining children. The first couple of bowls Pinsker manages to avoid the ball, not by using the bat but just by getting out of the way. The third ball however, bowled at speed and with aggression hits him squarely in the nose. There was no face protection back then at this level of cricket. Anyone who has been hit by a fast moving cricket ball knows painful this is. Pinsker dropped to the ground and the blood spurting from his nose and all over his cricket whites and the ground was copious.

Now I am NOT saying that this kind of brutality and sadism by an adult Master on a child only happens at public schools and not state ones. I am suggesting that the chance of a child being subjected to such physical and possibly emotional harm is greater in a 'classic British public school' than in a state one.

Such schools were and to a material degree still are based on a 19th century idea that because when you subject someone to physical hardship it result in making them physically stronger, therefore if you subject them to emotional hardship it will make them emotionally stronger. The notion is by today's standards patently false. The system was created in the 1800 and 1900's to produce a 'manager class' to serve the needs of the Empire. To create and army of administrators and functionaries that would go out and run the British Empire. To create 'tough' and 'independent' individuals to be sent to far flung and remote places around the world. Places with extremes of weather and limited comforts. To create an administrator class that knew, that had been taught not only that they were 'better' than the colonial people they would rule over but also their own place within the the administrator hierarchy, from Governor General down to lowly functionary. That is how these schools were structured, by design. Boarding was an integral part of this structure.

This is why I contend things like 'we do not have to do this to our children any more'. Why I contend that such schools are statistically more likely to leave those children that pass through them 'damaged' than schools not structured in such ways. Why this not 'just' about boarding alone. Why I talk about things like 'structural brutality'.

-------------

On the million to one chance that you ever come across and read this Pinsker, friend, educator, let me say Thank you. Your generosity of time and knowledge that you gave to me so freely in the Babbage Society has had a far far greater impact on 'making the man I am today' than anything Bedford School did. Let me also apologise for not showing or expressing then even an iota of the outraged that I feel today at what happend to you. What was DONE to you.
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