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Greek forces on red alert (Turkish surveying)

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Re: Greek forces on red alert (Turkish surveying)

Postby Londonrake » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:33 pm

Kikapu wrote:Erdogan calls it "Turkish Democracy".
Same as "Chinese Democracy, Russian Democracy, North Korean Democracy". :lol: :lol:


Not forgetting Syrian democracy.

But - come on - surely all these countries leaders are proven democrats? Regularly holding elections, which they invariably win overwhelmingly. Beloved leaders of their countries. What more proof do you want? :roll:

:lol:
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Re: Greek forces on red alert (Turkish surveying)

Postby Kikapu » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:33 pm

Londonrake wrote:
Kikapu wrote:Erdogan calls it "Turkish Democracy".
Same as "Chinese Democracy, Russian Democracy, North Korean Democracy". :lol: :lol:


Not forgetting Syrian democracy.

But - come on - surely all these countries leaders are proven democrats? Regularly holding elections, which they invariably win overwhelmingly. Beloved leaders of their countries. What more proof do you want? :roll:

:lol:

Yeah, silly me! :lol: :lol:
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Re: Greek forces on red alert (Turkish surveying)

Postby repulsewarrior » Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:34 pm

...grist for the mill,

https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origin ... dogan.html

“Turkey is a treaty ally to the United States, so it is supposed to be closer than any of the Gulf monarchies. But what is happening in effect is that Washington's doors are closed to Turkey, while the same doors are being opened to the Gulf monarchies,” said Selim Koru, an expert at the Economic Policy Research Foundation in Ankara.
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Re: Greek forces on red alert (Turkish surveying)

Postby repulsewarrior » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:57 pm

...and this one, as a warning; how "Americans" like to see things, let's say...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... ts-wrapper

"Another option could be to give Turkey access to the East Med Gas Forum, a planned pipeline to run across the region, with the purpose of creating an axis that excludes Turkey. The pipeline, a brainchild of the Trump administration, triggered a siege mentality in Ankara, eventually contributing to Turkey’s entry into the Libyan war."

...so far from the truth, it is plainly false, but the Washington Post did not check the facts; not a word about Egypt, who for their own reasons feel surrounded, threatened, by the same aggressor(s). Indeed, let us remember that Egypt is the original founder of the East Med. Gas Forum. It is not and never was Trump's brainchild, it is not about "a pipeline" and its significance is that it has provided Hope to everyone in the region, but (read: despite) Turkey (and Libya).

Turkey may sit at that table, at the East Med. Gas Forum, anytime she wishes, the chair is there unused, for her; but not in superiority: as an equal in a collective that acts respectfully, for safe and rational choices, for regional hegemony as neighbours on this sea.

...the author may be Hopeful indeed, my sense, more of an apologist, because Turkey herself is being torn apart; what is "Turkishness" to about half of its own People.

No "deal" can be made with a Turkey unwilling to respect, and questioning, the value of Law itself, Democratic Rule as States, a Rule of Law as a Humanity based on Universal Principals.

...Egypt, in that regard has a greater reason to feel threatened by the "Brotherhood" and its motives, than Greece; in affect, despite "it" having the same benefactor(s). This too, i feel, an observation worth mentioning; half of Greece, as a geography will disappear failing any objection, but for Egypt, (and Cyprus), the question is existential.

And beyond this are the Balkans, they too are linked to the Problem, (as the Cyprus Problem has been expanded to this bigger issue,) the Treaty of Sevres, and Lausanne, which he chooses to ignore, for the time before; where Erdogan likely has another score to settle. (How is that for an EU/NATO problem, with Russia included, Turkey may start?)

War with Iran, as an American interest, is, a War with Turkey, (and a War with Pakistan), Turkey appeased or not; it is naive to think otherwise. Who needs one most?
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Re: Greek forces on red alert (Turkish surveying)

Postby Paphitis » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:11 am

repulsewarrior wrote:...grist for the mill,

https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origin ... dogan.html

“Turkey is a treaty ally to the United States, so it is supposed to be closer than any of the Gulf monarchies. But what is happening in effect is that Washington's doors are closed to Turkey, while the same doors are being opened to the Gulf monarchies,” said Selim Koru, an expert at the Economic Policy Research Foundation in Ankara.


Dreamer! Gulf States are the major oil producers. So let’s look at it. Turkey or oil? Oil wins!

No way in the world the US will pick Turkey ahead of any of the Gulf State Monarchies. Some of these Gulf State Monarchies can’t be compared to Turkey either. Whilst they are actual dictatorships, social cohesion, living standards, and relative social freedoms are high.

They are actually quite pleasant places, far more pleasant than places like Turkey, Chy-na, or Russia. Look at the UAE for instance. I rate it like I rate Switzerland.

So dictatorships are not all bad you know. And sometimes they are very functional.
Last edited by Paphitis on Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Greek forces on red alert (Turkish surveying)

Postby repulsewarrior » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:25 am

...who is saying, "the US will pick Turkey ahead of any of the Gulf State Monarchies"?
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Re: Greek forces on red alert (Turkish surveying)

Postby Paphitis » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:30 am

repulsewarrior wrote:...who is saying, "the US will pick Turkey ahead of any of the Gulf State Monarchies"?


I don’t know. Thought you insinuated. The Gulf States are oil producing. That gives them a massive leg up in terms of strategic influence and power.

I seriously doubt the US or any country for that matter would want to piss OPEC off.

Some dictatorships are actually quite gruesome. Saudi Arabia for instance.

Others like UAE are quite good. Maybe some others too like Jordan, Oman etc.

The idea that dictatorship equates to something bad is just western thought because that is what we are use to and feel entitled to have. But if you were working in the Emirates, a Muslim country that is ruled by a Monarch, you wouldn’t be complaining too much not from fear but because life there is actually very reasonable and quite awesome.

There is religious freedom there as well. But there are dress codes.

Females should cover up and dress conservatively.
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Re: Greek forces on red alert (Turkish surveying)

Postby repulsewarrior » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:40 am

...not me, that's for sure.

Strange as it is though Qatar, (a backer of Turkey's intentions, and the "Brotherhood") is just one of these States important to American security; "a Non-NATO Ally", home to the US Navy's largest port in the Middle East, moving up with Turkey in affect moving down.
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Re: Greek forces on red alert (Turkish surveying)

Postby Paphitis » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:55 am

repulsewarrior wrote:...not me, that's for sure.

Strange as it is though Qatar, (a backer of Turkey's intentions, and the "Brotherhood") is just one of these States important to American security; "a Non-NATO Ally", home to the US Navy's largest port in the Middle East, moving up with Turkey in affect moving down.


Yes all Gulf States are important. Unfortunately, that means Saudi Arabia as well. yes that is quite a despicable regime but what do you do?
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Re: Greek forces on red alert (Turkish surveying)

Postby repulsewarrior » Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:35 pm

...a little history on UNCLOS, and territorial limits in the Aegean.



...other examples of compromise around the world, regarding UNCLOS, are included.
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