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Ukrainian Issue

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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby repulsewarrior » Tue May 17, 2022 6:43 pm

...take note,

The fact that this paragraph states that the condemnation of war is “unanimous” cannot go unnoticed. And this means that the Russian Church was also condemned, in the presence of Metropolitan Volokolamsk, without any further interpretations.

In recent years, the Patriarchate of Moscow has followed its own strategy that is almost identical to the Kremlin, its members (including Patriarch Kirill and Metropolitan Hilarion) have spoken out against the Ecumenical Patriarch and against all the Primates who have recognized the Orthodox Church of Ukraine of Metropolitan Epifaniy, in the worst possible way and with unacceptable designations for hierarchs.

https://orthodoxtimes.com/unanimous-con ... t-the-wcc/

...at an Historic meeting of Orthodox Churches, in Cyprus last week.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby repulsewarrior » Tue May 17, 2022 9:22 pm

...you gotta watch this,



...no airplanes flew, anywhere by the way.

Big difference Russians and "Russians"; easy to see, here.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby repulsewarrior » Tue May 17, 2022 9:29 pm



...this adds to our understanding of incidents like these.

''In times of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell. Don't blame those without power, for what power gets up to."
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Kikapu » Wed May 18, 2022 5:01 pm

Turkey is holding up the approval of Sweden and Finland into the NATO pact for meaningless reasons mentioned in the press about PKK members in those two countries. The truth of course is not mentioned, which is, Turkey wants a hell of a lot more concessions from the EU and the USA than hand full of PKK members to be extradited.

Most likely open EU membership talks, visa free travel for Turks in the EU, allow to keep the S-400 without sanctions, re-join the F-35 program, stop prosecuting Halkbank, have a free hand to drill in Eastern Mediterranean and a few more items from Erdogan’s laundry list.

This might tip the scale against possible Russia punishing Turkey by cutting her off gas, oil, tourism and importing Turkish goods which would sink the Turkish economy further into the toilet. Erdogan finds himself trapped between Russia and the West much more seriously than previous moments. It was only a matter of time before he would get caught between a Rock and a Hard place.

Russia says it doesn’t really care if Sweden and Finland would join NATO, true or false is immaterial really, but in any case, there is no need to rush their membership by being blackmailed by Erdogan to give him what he wants. They can afford to wait until the Turkish elections in 2023 and deal with a new leader instead. :wink:
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Londonrake » Wed May 18, 2022 8:14 pm

Kikapu wrote:You sound like a broken record sometimes where it becomes monotonous to read the same thing again and again. :roll:

How did I become a Russian apologist? :lol:

Is that what happens by giving personal opinions and playing devils advocate by looking at the war from an angle which is not in the main media? :shock:

WOW, doesn’t it then make you a narrow minded pompous know it all teacher’s pet! :D

You can follow the general consensus on the war all you want and listen to whatever/whomever you want and I will not you fault you for it as anyone can think and believe anything they want, including mass propaganda delivered by the western media on the war. Enjoy. :D

As for Blair’s video, some valid points but overall same as any other politician’s views in the west. He is just a another team Player! :wink:

God forbid anyone say anything to the contrary or else they will get labeled as Russia’s apologist!

I don’t know who would make such labels?

Oh, wait a minute, you do! :roll: :lol:


Well, that puts me in a difficult spot. Goodbye G&Ts + fish 'n' chips I guess. :(

A broken record? The trouble is - well, as it seems to me - the central and most important point of all this keeps being either glossed over or translated into an academic debating issue. That being, Vladimir Putin has initiated the military invasion of a neighbouring country which has so far resulted in the deaths of many thousands of (mostly) civilians. The wanton destruction of entire population centres and enforced relocation of about 10 million of its people. Let's not get into the considerable and mounting evidence of atrocities being perpetrated by the - it increasingly seems - ill discipled (inept) Russian army. I suspect that will all come back to haunt them in good time.

There I go, doing the broken record thing - yet again. But it seems that some - and you are certainly one of them - view it, from our privileged top 10% of the world's wealthy keyboards, as in some way all justifiable. That, on the basis of what appears to me complete fabrications. Absurdities about NATO, Nazi invasion threats and Bio warfare labs. We are though apparently required to soberly consider all these absurdities in the "debate" about this war. Common sense and personal judgement making you "pompous" and "narrow minded".

A Devil's advocate is - well - "a person who expresses a contentious opinion in order to provoke debate or test the strength of the opposing arguments". Where I come from the contemporary expression tends to be "wind up merchant". Please feel free to express your "opinion" but it seems it's basically something you tend to proffer merely in order to provoke, rather than with any real depth of feeling.

Do you truly believe that the entire sum of the vast spectrum of media we have access to here in the west amounts to nothing more than "propaganda"? :( Whilst, for instance, you say nothing about another member who tells us - apparently hand on heart - that people in Mariupol, who's city has been obliterated by the Russian army, are greeting them with flowers and begging them not to leave? It seems, to spare them from the "torture" they've been subjected to? And that they're spending time visiting cinemas? They really need better people in St Petersburgh writing this sort of fairy tale shite. Don't - as a rational person - you agree? Or, do you prefer to remain one of the useful idiot sheep who reject all western media as nonsense?

I'm disappointed at your "pompous, narrow minded, teachers pet" slur. I thought you were better than that. The epithet "Russian apologist" isn't meant as an offensive term, more a fact, and you Sir have qualified.

I grew up in what you would politely call a very humble (Mr Copperfield :lol: ) environment. I clawed my way as far as I could up the greasy poll by initially signing up to an Agoge. Then trading up - literally. FWIW, I don't recognise your assessment of my character and, as an obviously quite well-to-do individual, who's apparently spent his life nomadically across the west and now sits comfortable in Switzerland on his 4 passports I suggest you're being a bit of a hypocrite.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Londonrake » Wed May 18, 2022 8:18 pm

Kikapu wrote:Turkey is holding up the approval of Sweden and Finland into the NATO pact for meaningless reasons mentioned in the press about PKK members in those two countries. The truth of course is not mentioned, which is, Turkey wants a hell of a lot more concessions from the EU and the USA than hand full of PKK members to be extradited.

Most likely open EU membership talks, visa free travel for Turks in the EU, allow to keep the S-400 without sanctions, re-join the F-35 program, stop prosecuting Halkbank, have a free hand to drill in Eastern Mediterranean and a few more items from Erdogan’s laundry list.

This might tip the scale against possible Russia punishing Turkey by cutting her off gas, oil, tourism and importing Turkish goods which would sink the Turkish economy further into the toilet. Erdogan finds himself trapped between Russia and the West much more seriously than previous moments. It was only a matter of time before he would get caught between a Rock and a Hard place.

Russia says it doesn’t really care if Sweden and Finland would join NATO, true or false is immaterial really, but in any case, there is no need to rush their membership by being blackmailed by Erdogan to give him what he wants. They can afford to wait until the Turkish elections in 2023 and deal with a new leader instead. :wink:


Rumour has it - he wants the US arms embargo - post procurement of Russian weapon systems - to be rescinded. The more adventurous suggesting that those will end up in Ukraine.

Either way, I really don't see Erdogan preventing the ascension to NATO of Sweden and Finland.

Jeez! What a total fuck up for the "Master strategist" Putin. :eyecrazy:
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Kikapu » Wed May 18, 2022 9:12 pm

Londonrake wrote:
Either way, I really don't see Erdogan preventing the ascension to NATO of Sweden and Finland.

Jeez! What a total fuck up for the "Master strategist" Putin. :eyecrazy:


If Putin never had intentions of invading Sweden or Finland, then they becoming NATO members should not have any concerns for him as long as they do not place any American nuclear missiles on their territory, but they might have Russians missiles aimed at them from now on al the same. Ukraine is different because Putin wants to shut Ukraine from the Black Sea before they also become NATO member eventually.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Londonrake » Wed May 18, 2022 9:33 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Londonrake wrote:
Either way, I really don't see Erdogan preventing the ascension to NATO of Sweden and Finland.

Jeez! What a total fuck up for the "Master strategist" Putin. :eyecrazy:


If Putin never had intentions of invading Sweden or Finland, then they becoming NATO members should not have any concerns for him as long as they do not place any American nuclear missiles on their territory, but they might have Russians missiles aimed at them from now on al the same. Ukraine is different because Putin wants to shut Ukraine from the Black Sea before they also become NATO member eventually.


See what I mean by "Russian apologist"? No?

A year ago you might have righteously claimed Russia had no intention of invading Ukraine. In fact, the Messiah himself said in February "Russia has no intention of invading Ukraine. It's all western propaganda".Basically, it seems nobody can trust anything the man says. Best to be safe. Ehh? :wink:

Russia has had nuclear capable Iskander missiles in Kaliningrad for 4 years. Able to reach most European capitals in a few minutes.

Look at a map. Visualise the Baltic as a NATO lake and the Kola pennisular with Finland and Sweden as members. Look at how Turkey controls access to/from the Black Sea. Look at how NATO controls all aspects of the Med.

Then, look at the (remote as it happens) pretty innocuous implications of Ukraine joining NATO.

Major Putin fuck up. No? Seriously? :?
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby repulsewarrior » Wed May 18, 2022 9:45 pm

...it is possible that the war will stop soon; the Nazis that Putin talks about can be ruled as conquered (in Mariupol), whether there is a prisoner exchange or not.

The real issue is reform. All three players in effect need exactly the same reform, Constitutional reform. As in Cyprus, a BBF should look appealing to them; identifying their People as Individuals above all (Freedom), and in providing a capacity for them to act as Persons at another level of Government, the Goodwill and Good Faith of such Majorities may demonstrate their own commitment to the Universal Principles which bind us/them all, by providing as well in their Agendas for the special needs that Minorities living among them will surely have (Liberty).

...a lot of work has been done to devalue the Problem to being many problems, like the East Med. (i.e. Libya) and the Aegean. And here where the problem is slowly evolving to a Problem not a word; i find that telling. Everything is "out the window" as Erdogan says. And he can turn on a dime to have Fame and a place along with it as such, In History: can they?

In the end all three must be shaking hands, otherwise they are failures; who can deny that the problem is the Problem. Intentions count.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby repulsewarrior » Wed May 18, 2022 9:46 pm

Londonrake wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Londonrake wrote:
Either way, I really don't see Erdogan preventing the ascension to NATO of Sweden and Finland.

Jeez! What a total fuck up for the "Master strategist" Putin. :eyecrazy:


If Putin never had intentions of invading Sweden or Finland, then they becoming NATO members should not have any concerns for him as long as they do not place any American nuclear missiles on their territory, but they might have Russians missiles aimed at them from now on al the same. Ukraine is different because Putin wants to shut Ukraine from the Black Sea before they also become NATO member eventually.


See what I mean by "Russian apologist"? No?

A year ago you might have righteously claimed Russia had no intention of invading Ukraine. In fact, the Messiah himself said in February "Russia has no intention of invading Ukraine. It's all western propaganda".Basically, it seems nobody can trust anything the man says. Best to be safe. Ehh? :wink:

Russia has had nuclear capable Iskander missiles in Kaliningrad for 4 years. Able to reach most European capitals in a few minutes.

Look at a map. Visualise the Baltic as a NATO lake and the Kola pennisular with Finland and Sweden as members. Look at how Turkey controls access to/from the Black Sea. Look at how NATO controls all aspects of the Med.

Then, look at the (remote as it happens) pretty innocuous implications of Ukraine joining NATO.

Major Putin fuck up. No? Seriously? :?


...last stop Russia joining NATO>
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