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Ukrainian Issue

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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby repulsewarrior » Thu May 12, 2022 5:32 pm

https://www.journalofdemocracy.org/how- ... ed-russia/

...a review of Russia's social-economic condition, and the changing conditions due to this war.

worth a glance; i enjoyed it.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Londonrake » Thu May 12, 2022 8:29 pm

Kikapu wrote:Yes, Russia cannot have an endless fight to gain ground because it is not just fighting Ukraine, but NATO also.

NATO haven't committed any forces and I suspect unless Putin is desperate enough to use WMD that's the way it will stay.

However, if Russia”s goal is to cut off Ukraine from the Black Sea completely which is what I believe it to be the goal from the beginning and capture enough land from the coast to inland, then Russia will stop advancing and then start digging in to defend the territory it has gained instead, and that they can do forever if they so wish. :wink:

The problem with the western narrative has always been Russia wanting to capture all of Ukraine in two days, and since that did not happen, Russia has lost the war. Really? :D

Russia's initial plan - and their actions + comments from some of their senior commanders supporting it - was to occupy the whole of the country in a timescale based upon 72 hours. That was of course the scenario where they would be greeted with flags and flowers by a population in tears of joy at their liberation. It was also thought to be the case among most of the Western leadership. Nobody had realised just how inept the Russian army and it's leadership would turn out to be.

I guess these people were in the same room in the Kremlin when these war plans were drawn! :roll:

No, but their advance upon Kiev - repelled at significant cost and resulting in a humiliating retreat - plus the intelligence gathering efforts by the west (the Russians have been using open channel HF and even the local mobile phone system FFS) have given a good picture of their intentions and expectations.

Did they ever think that Putin has been playing mind games with the west all along, which is to say one thing and do the other. :roll:

But Putin does it all the time. He's been saying that he wants to stop NATO's advance but has actually been responsible for bringing the, what was clearly a fragmenting organisation, together more than anything else in the past 30 years. Do you and the other Russian apologists realise the implications for Russia of Finland and Sweden joining NATO? Start perhaps with a look at a map. Then lets talk about the reality. In a word - disastrous.

I guess Churchill laid out his Normandy landing plans with the rest of Germany before launching it! :roll:

It isn't about foresight. These events have happened and are being discussed in retrospect. Initially I think the view was that in accordance with Putin's repeated assurances (aka lies - the man is an inveterate liar) of no invasion there wouldn't be one. When it happened expectations generally were that the Russian army would roll across Ukraine in a matter of days.

Come on people, these people in the western media, politicians and the so called military experts are mostly talking out of their backsides along with Zelensky. It is painful to my brain listening to these idiots having a propaganda love fest amongst themselves with their make believe stories to the uninformed as they are relying on people’s patriotism to the west so that they can sell their fairytale stories to them. :wink:

What on earth does all that mean? :? . We're in day 78 of this invasion and the Russians have yet to declare a significant victory even in the like of Mariupol. I think you'll find the idiots feeding on a love fest of propaganda are those who have consistently maintained that all was going exactly to plan. The good news links pouring in every day. Despite the fact we are well into a third month of this "special military operation". I mean - are you people for real? :roll:
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Lordo » Thu May 12, 2022 9:44 pm

Well, you are ignoring one simple thing. Nato is fighting this war. It will take a little longer like the Afghani people and Vietnam too. I forgot about Lebanon back in the 80s where the Nato could not run out of Lebanon fast enough. But this time they have learnt to keep their soldiers out of harm's way and still fight the war.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Londonrake » Thu May 12, 2022 9:52 pm

Lordo wrote:Well, you are ignoring one simple thing. Nato is fighting this war. It will take a little longer like the Afghani people and Vietnam too. I forgot about Lebanon back in the 80s where the Nato could not run out of Lebanon fast enough. But this time they have learnt to keep their soldiers out of harm's way and still fight the war.


The answer still eludes me Lordo. Why, as a supposedly conscience stricken socialist, you continue your support for a man who's clearly the worst fascist dictator on this planet for 50 years. That, clearly demonstrated by his unprovoked invasion of a neighbour that has so far suffered thousands of civilian deaths and had many of its cities and towns reduced to rubble.

One of life's great mysteries. Like black holes perhaps?

Or, maybe it's just the argument thing? :wink:
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Lordo » Thu May 12, 2022 10:13 pm

Londonrake wrote:
Lordo wrote:Well, you are ignoring one simple thing. Nato is fighting this war. It will take a little longer like the Afghani people and Vietnam too. I forgot about Lebanon back in the 80s where the Nato could not run out of Lebanon fast enough. But this time they have learnt to keep their soldiers out of harm's way and still fight the war.


The answer still eludes me Lordo. Why, as a supposedly conscience stricken socialist, you continue your support for a man who's clearly the worst fascist dictator on this planet for 50 years. That, clearly demonstrated by his unprovoked invasion of a neighbour that has so far suffered thousands of civilian deaths and had many of its cities and towns reduced to rubble.

One of life's great mysteries. Like black holes perhaps?

Or, maybe it's just the argument thing? :wink:

Not at all. I will always be against America and the Western way of taking over of countries and pretend it is under freedom of choice. Bullshiiiiiiit man. You really need to learn what America has been doing and still doing since WW2.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Kikapu » Thu May 12, 2022 10:48 pm

Kikapu wrote:
I guess Churchill laid out his Normandy landing plans with the rest of Germany before launching it! :roll:

Londonrake wrote:
It isn't about foresight. These events have happened and are being discussed in retrospect. Initially I think the view was that in accordance with Putin's repeated assurances (aka lies - the man is an inveterate liar) of no invasion there wouldn't be one. When it happened expectations generally were that the Russian army would roll across Ukraine in a matter of days.



This might come as a surprise to you but, it is expected for dictators and their press to lie. :roll:

What excuses do the democratic leaders and press have when they lie? :roll:
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Lordo » Thu May 12, 2022 11:03 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
I guess Churchill laid out his Normandy landing plans with the rest of Germany before launching it! :roll:

Londonrake wrote:
It isn't about foresight. These events have happened and are being discussed in retrospect. Initially I think the view was that in accordance with Putin's repeated assurances (aka lies - the man is an inveterate liar) of no invasion there wouldn't be one. When it happened expectations generally were that the Russian army would roll across Ukraine in a matter of days.



This might come as a surprise to you but, it is expected for dictators and their press to lie. :roll:

What excuses do the democratic leaders and press have when they lie? :roll:

Besides all that. Imagine tomorrow Cuba or Mexico decided to invite Russia to install nuclear weapons on their soil. Is Amecia going to adhere to their sovereignty rights?

Like fuck they she will. The problem with LR is he has been smelling bullshit so long, he does not know what air smells like.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby repulsewarrior » Fri May 13, 2022 12:54 am

...easy to imagine Mexico inviting Russia as you suggest, eh Lordo?

And what is Russia doing in Mexico, anything? What's the connection? Trade? Values? I remember, Drugs. You talk of invasion; "Russians" and "Mexicans" are killing Mexicans. Americans are dying, but The "Americans" that die are few.

Next i am expecting to hear that the Natives are "Brothers", a link that goes back before there existed white men; works for Erdogan.

...more "Us" and "Them". Way too simplistic as a narrative, given that you care about the exploited, who is the "bad" guy, and thus who is the "good"; i would suggest you are more careful with your choices: the Problem is far more complex.

...who is Putin? The richest man in the world it's said. Corruption becoming the trade where he is the most successful; a competitive person and good at it. Less said the better about the blood on his hands, after all who can prove it?

Viktor Yanukovych's Mezhyhirya, do you know this guy? He has been hiding in Russia, this third rate member of Putin's lot for ten years now expecting to return to this home, as a loyal servant.



...yes, it's a long video; that's only the house.

...think about it. This man is to blame if you want to blame someone for turning Ukrainians West.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Paphitis » Fri May 13, 2022 1:43 am

You actually got to wonder about the Russian Military. Their total incompetence has been a true revelation which has the west and NATO in total surprise and shock.

As LR stated, having comms on HF, VHF, UHF and using insecure mobile towers is playing right into Ukraine hands.

It literally amazes me when they seem to gloat about all their whizbang hyper-sonic missiles, but they are not using secure comms.

Not just that, but their media are doing propaganda pieces on their military, even ships as they are unloading in occupied Ukrainian ports. 5 minutes later, those ships get hit by a Neptune Missile after they get the coordinates from social media metadata - incredible... :shock:

And for those who don't know, shipping docks, like airport gates and apron parking bays are surveyed and published to an accuracy within about 5cms - I kid you not. So seeing all these pretty Russian ships at this docks on Russia TV, or Social Media is like a total gimme for the Ukrainians. Are the Russians seriously that stupid? :shock:

You literally can't even make up the stupidity or sheer incompetence.

And back to the hyper-sonic missiles. The Americans have been testing prototypes for a few years ago. The difference with them, is about 20 years of R&D compared to Russia's 2 years.

I can not in all seriousness see any Russian victory here.

RIP Russia
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Paphitis » Fri May 13, 2022 2:12 am

Kikapu wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Russia can't fight forever. Ukraine can and will fight on till the day Russia withdraws in defeat.


Well, this is where you are right and wrong Paphitis. :wink:

Yes, Russia cannot have an endless fight to gain ground because it is not just fighting Ukraine, but NATO also.

However, if Russia”s goal is to cut off Ukraine from the Black Sea completely which is what I believe it to be the goal from the beginning and capture enough land from the coast to inland, then Russia will stop advancing and then start digging in to defend the territory it has gained instead, and that they can do forever if they so wish. :wink:

The problem with the western narrative has always been Russia wanting to capture all of Ukraine in two days, and since that did not happen, Russia has lost the war. Really? :D

I guess these people were in the same room in the Kremlin when these war plans were drawn! :roll:

Did they ever think that Putin has been playing mind games with the west all along, which is to say one thing and do the other. :roll:

I guess Churchill laid out his Normandy landing plans with the rest of Germany before launching it! :roll:

Come on people, these people in the western media, politicians and the so called military experts are mostly talking out of their backsides along with Zelensky. It is painful to my brain listening to these idiots having a propaganda love fest amongst themselves with their make believe stories to the uninformed as they are relying on people’s patriotism to the west so that they can sell their fairytale stories to them. :wink:


Hi Kikapu,

I hope you are well.

Just looking at the map, the Ukrainian Military is achieving significant victories in the northern flanks and Southern Flanks. This will prevent the Russians outflanking 30,000 Ukrainian Troops in the Donbass area. There is still significant risk that these forces can still be cut off from the south and north, but the Russian advance has slowed to snail pace or stopped completely by the Ukrainians. Russians are in retreat or taking defensive positions indicating things are not going well. As the Russian Northern and Southern Flanks recede, the Russians will find themselves under significant pressure. The other thing is that there is significant rainfall now and from what I have read, a few hundred of their mechanized armore has been bogged and/or abandoned.

The likelihood now of Russia cutting Ukraine off from the Black Sea is non existent. But there is the possible scenario that the Belarussians may also invade from the north, but the risk there is that this could be the trigger for NATO to intervene.

At the moment, NATO isn't involved like you insinuate. All the west is doing is supplying arms, limited intelligence, and humanitarian aid. That just evens up the odds a little. The Russians have access to one of the most significant war machines on the planet. Our arms have given the Ukrainians a fighting chance. There are no western or NATO troops in Ukraine. So the Ukrainians are left with doing the heavy lifting and their sacrifice has been immense and comparable to nothing we have seen from any country since WW2 (maybe only Vietnam compares).

I'm getting my information from a Ukrainian source - a fellow pilot who seems to be giving accurate information as he also publishes and divulges the areas in which the Ukrainians are not doing well or have lost ground so I have no reason to doubt that source. Also seems to be quite a good and switched on individual as you would expect.
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